Breaking Through The Referral Ceiling For More Consistent Growth

Breaking Through The Referral Ceiling For More Consistent Growth

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome To the Rialto Marketing Podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven-figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth, and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have with me Scott Kreisberg from One Step Secure IT. Scott, welcome. Thanks for taking the time to be here.

Scott Kreisberg
Absolutely, Tim. Thanks for inviting me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I'm looking forward to digging into this with you. I start all of these interviews by just asking some quick, rapid fire questions. Are you ready to rock and roll?

Scott Kreisberg
Let's do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Scott Kreisberg
So we're a technology services company known as a managed service provider. Short would be an MSP. And we specialize in outsource IT, cyber security and compliance readiness. So if you're a business that needs any compliance or regulatory requirements, we're there to help you get through that. We've been around for about 35 years, and we have really deep knowledge in the retail industry as well. So we actually even provide technology designed to run the entire gamut of a retailer. From point of sale for physical stores all the way to online stores as well.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. Thirty-five years, a long time, Scott. What's the most important lesson you've learned?

Scott Kreisberg
So it depends what the other week you asked me that question.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I know.

Scott Kreisberg
What comes to mind is something I like to call predictive cash flow management. So it sounds like some pretty serious gobbling good. But small business owners have a tendency to spend their money that they get in. So they can live week to week and they can get caught by a surprise expense that they may or may not have been expecting. So what we did really early on is we had this thing where we look out 12 months and we really determine all of our cash requirements that far in advance. Let's say you have an insurance bill coming due, that's $10,000. I mean, that's a pretty big ticket. We'll go ahead and we'll start putting $300 a week setting that money aside so that when that bill comes due in 10 months or whatever it is, then we'll got it. We just like to literally spend into the future, if that makes sense.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love that. Spend into the future. Yeah. Rather than just looking at what's in the bank account going, Oh, we're in good shape.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. Then where did it go?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, exactly. We had so much money in the bank account a week ago, and now it's all gone.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah, what happens if something like a pandemic occurs? Yeah, right? Yeah. Or more realistically, a recession. If you don't have money set aside, you could find yourself in trouble.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. We all know growing a business is hard. Do you have any mantra or motivational saying that you say to yourself or share with your team to help push through those times?

Scott Kreisberg
Not really that I use regularly. The thing that comes to mind for me is when I was growing up, my mom would always say, and I think this is a famous saying, This too shall pass. For me, instead of getting so mired into the current situation, I actually, just like if you listen to this preemptive cash flow management concept, you probably will get really quickly the idea that I'm a planner. I think as a small business owner, you need to plan. For me, what I'll do is have things set up in my business that would help me identify problems before they come. To me, if a significant thing takes place in my business that's non-optimum, I just go to the mirror and look at myself. What did I miss? Or maybe that's the mantra. What did I miss? Because there's nobody else to blame. I like to set up things in my company that will show these things up in advance.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, I love that there's nobody else to blame, right? You're taking responsibility for it. It's like it's up to you. And look, I am a planner as well. As a marketer, I'm a little biased. You got to have a plan. If you don't have a plan, you're just shooting from the hip, and that's never going to be a way to get consistent repeatable results. But we also need to understand that there is no perfect plan and our plans are constantly evolving, right? So we need to be flexible with what we're doing. But you got to have some plan to start, right? You got to know where you're going to focus.

Scott Kreisberg
Absolutely. Yeah, poorly executed plan is better than no plan at all.

Benefits of Working with a Mentor

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, that's right. I love it. So in the pre-interview when we last connected, you share this. And I think there's a lot that people could learn from this experience. But before you even graduated from college, you found a local businessman that mentored you. What was this relationship form and what were the biggest benefits for you at that time?

Scott Kreisberg
Life is a journey, and sometimes life will bump you one way or life will bump you another way and you hope you make good decisions along that way. And the only way to really do that is if you don't have the experience, you need to pull from somebody with Des. This was just pure faith. We were moving into a new residence and a couple of doors down was this entrepreneur and we were having trouble, I think, with the garage or something like that. He go, Hey, do you need some help with that? This one can be a little tricky. We learned about each other and found out that he owned a small business. He took an interest in my future. And so a relationship blossomed from there. But I don't want some of your listeners to go, Well, he was lucky. He just haps upon a mentor when there are... This is a free service that is offered by organizations. You can go to score.org. Yes, you can. And you put in your zip code and bam, there are potential mentors all over the place. So for sure, as a small business owner, connecting up with a mentor was really great. But for me, my mentor was like, you should major in this. These are your optional courses you should take. When I was about to graduate, he was like, if you can get a computer for your graduation present, I'll teach you how to actually start a business. I was fortunate enough that my parents were able to do that. He helped me lay out a plan of how to attract new clients, how to service those clients, how to account for those clients. I was again lucky with the majors because he was a major in finance and marketing with a computer science minor. So think about that and in today's world. He saw what was really going to be long-lasting. Of course, I was open to listening. I didn't have that attitude like, What do you know? Young people, you know? So you've got to be willing to listen to your mentor if that makes sense.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It makes perfect sense. I think there's a lot of things to pull from this. And I want to expand upon what you said about being lucky. There are so many different places we can go to find mentors. I think a lot of us default from a mentor being someone that we speak with, whether it's face to face or virtually. But I mean, mentors can... I mean, they can be somebody that's putting out content consistently that is helping you, that somebody that's already gone down the path you want to go down and you're learning from them in some way, shape or form.

Scott Kreisberg
That's a good point.

Tim Fitzpatrick
To me, that's a Mentor as well. So there are multiple ways we can be mentored. We just need to know, I think, what we need, and then we can find the right mentor for us and they're all over.

Scott Kreisberg
Absolutely. I mean, for sure, YouTube, also specialty organizations. That's a great point.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. You know what? Mentors can help us get where we want to go faster, right? I think most of us as entrepreneurs, we're eventually going to get there. To me, the question is, how much pain are you going to have along the way? And how many different twists and turns are you going to have? It's still going to be a winding road, but it won't be quite as windy if you find the right people to help you certain things out.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. You can graduate the School of Hard Knox, Cum Laude. You can literally... Yeah, you can do it that way. You can bang your head against walls and get a very... You can graduate with a 4.0 average on that, or you can work with people or learn from people that can say, Hey, go this way. That's a good point. 

Investing Heavily in Marketing

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. So I want to shift gears a little bit, and thank you for sharing that. You have a team, five to six marketers, somewhere around there. How many people are in your company total?

Scott Kreisberg
A little over 50.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. So five to six people on marketing. So, I mean, you're invest... Most people that have a company your size do not have a team this large. And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with it. As a marketer, I actually think it's fantastic. But you're investing heavily in marketing. How long have you been investing like this? And if you remember, why did you choose to start doing that?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. So years ago, I just saw that there were two kinds of business owners. One that didn't really invest in marketing. Their marketing was customer referrals. And that works, right? But if you experience a slowdown or you've gone to that well too many times, it can thwart your growth. Then I saw people that invested in marketing and so there was really no glass ceiling at that point. I just chose to be more in control of my future. We've invested heavily in marketing for years. Look, it's marketing's job to get interest in our products and services by getting others to know about the positive influence or the positive results that we provided them. And so if we can get that out to a broad audience then the people will reach. And it takes a lot of impressions to generate not only a lead, but get somebody from being a lead to actually openly and honestly having a conversation with you. I think the current statistics are like 15 impressions or you probably know, I'm not going to go into your world, that's for sure.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I think it depends on who you talk to, where you get the stat. But in marketing, you talk about the marketing rule of seven. It takes at least seven impressions of your brand for it to start to register with the audience. So just the simplest way to think about it is just marketing takes consistent effort over time. It's not a switch. You can turn on and off. You got to be committed to it and just do it over and over and over again.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. It's not a one and done, that's for sure. And it's a living, breathing thing, right? Yes. And so as you said earlier, other ways you can find a mentor, but it used to be like you could do paid ad, I mean, paid print ads, telemarketing, direct mail. I mean, but now with the internet, there's just so much more that has to get done.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You know what I find? It's just information overload for most people. They're battling information overload, so many different things coming at them. It's hard to really discern what I need to focus on based on where I am and where I want to go. It can be really overwhelming. It can be frustrating because you're just like, Oh, my God, I feel like I need to be everywhere. And the reality is we don't need to be everywhere with our marketing. I do think it's important to take a multipronged, multichannel approach. You don't want to just rely on one given marketing channel, like referrals, right? You need to have multiple channels. The way I think about it is if your business is being built on referrals, you're riding a unicycle. If the tire goes flat, you're screwed. Don't you want to be on a three or four-wheeler? Or better yet, like a semi that has multiple tires. A semi loses the tire, they're still getting to where they want to go. Take that multipronged approach, but any channel can work for anybody. You got to figure out what's going to work well for you. I'll just give you a quick example of this. I love video content. Frankly, I don't love video content as a consumer. I love video content as a creator of content and a marketer because I can leverage it and I can create all kinds of different content from it. But if I put that in a plan for a client and they are terrified of being on camera, I'm not doing them a service, right? They're going to hate it. They're not going to do it long term, and they're going to give up. So that's okay. We don't have to do video. There are other ways to create content. So please continue because I know there was something you were going to.

Scott Kreisberg
Oh, no. Yeah. I was just... For us, we're on a constant journey to try to generate at least five sources of leads, any one of which can sustain our company. So that's a tall order. And also with marketing, like I said earlier, it is changing. So what we did maybe 20 years ago isn't going to work today. For me, I'm a firm believer. If I was just starting up today or I didn't have the budget for five people that had the talent that we have, I would be working with somebody like you because you would help guide us through that process and what's working today and provide that service.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You're constantly working toward five different sources of leads coming in consistently from each of those sources?

Scott Kreisberg
We monitor all of them. We do direct mail, we do follow-up phone messages, we do trade shows, we do all kinds of social. I mean, it's ridiculous how much it takes in that arena. And of course, Google paid ads or whatever like that. So I just named five, but we probably have ten more.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, and it's- It sounds like you're constantly... You're testing, you're measuring, you look at the data, and then you're making course corrections in each of those channels.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. I will do a lot of A/B tests too. So I'm not sure which message will work. We come up with two ideas and we'll do a set with one message and a set with the other. Metrics are marketing, probably one of marketing's most powerful tools.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Yes, one of its most powerful and one of its most unused. With marketing metrics, there's just so many metrics. It's really important to look at the particular source channel that you're using and what your goals are to determine what metrics you're going to track. I would say, err on the side of less rather than more. But if you're not tracking metrics, you don't know what's working and what's not. Yand how to make course corrections and where you need to make course corrections.

Scott Kreisberg
Right. And also marketing tends to be a leading indicator. So if sales are slowing down, it's almost too late. I always tell my team, if sales start to dip, I start to look into it. If sales start to continue to dip, I'm getting alarmish. And it's just because getting sales off the ground is like a rocket ship. You know how much fuel and energy it takes to get a rocket out of the atmosphere. Once it's out of the atmosphere, a little push here, a little push there, and you're on your way. If marketing starts to trend down, if lead gen starts to trend down, you have to go into high alert, literally high alert because if that persists, sales are going to start going down. If that persists, cashflow is going to go down. If that persists, profit is going to get out. So to me, I think these marketing, like you said, less is more. But one or two, we monitor inbound leads, right? That's just like a main statistic. But we've got all kinds of stuff, like how much outflow we're doing, how many impressions we're getting. We don't look at that every day or every week.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, Scott, you touched on it. One of the most important metrics to me is inbound leads. How many leads are coming in each month? And then secondary to that is where those leads coming from. Because even at a high level, if you know where the leads are coming from, that's telling you which activities you're taking are working and which aren't. So again, this is not rocket science. It really is pretty simple. We just need to put the steps in place so that we're actually doing it and getting it done.

Scott Kreisberg
And it pretty much all starts with marketing. So if you aren't focused on marketing, then that by itself is a problem.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're doing a lot of marketing. What's working well for you today?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah, I just thought about it, which I didn't mention earlier, but it's probably the one we get the highest ROI on is alliances or partnerships. So working with complementary businesses. So if you get a client that you really think is an ideal client of yours and if you could replicate that 100 times, you'd be a super happy business owner. Because being a small business owner, if you pull in a challenging customer, it can just suck the energy out of you. So if you like, Oh, my God, if I could have 100 of these, that would be awesome. So then basically interview that client and find out who they do business with and then go talk to those people and see if you can form some alliances going, hey, look, we have this. I'm sure you've read this one before, but I firmly believe in that. So partnerships and alliances are working really well. What you're doing now works really well. So creating valuable content and putting that up, people are... It's mostly a content-driven society today. So you could be acting as a mentor to someone right now and providing that content. As I said, early multichannel is working well. Using social media and video content and putting it all together at all points to maybe long-form content on your web page to attract people there and then you have a call to action. So all of that is probably working really well. Locally, we do a lot of paid Google ads. I think that works really well locally. So you have to set your website up a certain way to make sure that you're getting that level of penetration. And I said earlier, face-to-face is working again. So hopefully that stays and we all don't have to hibernate again here. So trade shows are great face-to-face and you can get a nice wallop of leads. So you can do local trade shows and you can walk away with 20 prospects that any other way would be a lot of effort. So marketing is really key there, pre-marketing and getting people to show up at the booth, having the right offer at the booth, right messaging at the booth. So it's good. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to touch on trade shows because there's a lot of people are taking advantage of trade shows again. But I also think it's a place where a lot of people just dropped the ball because they don't have a plan, they don't know what their goals are, and they don't have follow-up systems in place for how they're actually going to continue to nurture those relationships. I think trade shows can work fantastic, but you got to go in knowing what you want out of it and how you're going to follow up with people because a lot of people just dropped the ball there. You touched on that.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah, absolutely. Scheduling appointments at The Trade Show is actually what we learned works really well. So if you have somebody that's interested and saying, I'll call you after The Trade Show, you're going to have a hard time getting them on the phone. But yeah, certainly putting your people, your prospects in certain buckets and having the right follow up afterwards, you're 100 % correct, of course.

Winning Businesses Using Guarantees

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. It's super, super important. I want to talk about something else that I think is helping you from a marketing standpoint, but we'll dig into it. You guys have what you call a no hostage guarantee. Guarantees is something that we look at when we start to create messaging play, an message and playbook for a client. And I would say half of professional service, B2B professional service providers have a guarantee and half don't. Can we dig into this a little bit? Share just like, what are the details of the guarantee? And have you found it to be helpful for you?

Scott Kreisberg
Well, we developed the No Hostage Guarantee from working with prospects over the years. And we've had prospects who were too afraid to leave their current provider because they were petrified of how much control they had over their business and what would happen to them if they pulled the trigger on them. They thought they'd be retaliatory or something like that. And so here's a business owner handcuffed to someone who they don't want to be handcuffed to. And I just saw that as a great opportunity to... Because we get the keys to the kingdom. As an IT provider, we really do have a tremendous amount of control over our clients or the potential to have a bunch of control over. Butso we wanted to take that pressure away from them. So many people have money back guarantees and all that. And that's just what's table stakes. So the genesis of the no hostage guarantee came from people that were too afraid to come on board, that ultimately come on board, but we're too afraid to do it. So our new hostage guarantee is 90 days, a money back guarantee. So if somebody signs up with us and they're not happy with our service, then we'll give them all their monthly fees back. We will provide all the documentation that we've created. We do hundreds of hours of work. We'll we'll basically hand it over to them and then work with whoever else they are trying to go with. And sometimes it happens when it's not a negative situation. Like a client of ours gets acquired by somebody else and they already have an IT company, so they're going to stay with that resource. So we just make it as easy as possible. We're not trying to, Where are you going? What are you doing? And make it difficult for them. So it's about freedom. It's really what it is. It's about freedom.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to break a few things down here. I love the fact that you call this a no-hostage guarantee. The branding on this, I think, is just a great name. Because when I saw No Hostage, I knew exactly what you were referring to. My guess is most of your clients do as well. The branding on it already makes a ton of sense. 90 days, if they're not happy, give them their money back, all the documentation. How long have you been using this?

Scott Kreisberg
I would say maybe two years.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. And do you feel like it's helped you win business?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah, I think it helps on two sides. It helps put the prospect at ease because this is a big decision. And so they have to think hard before they're going to select a new... It's like picking a new doctor or something like that. It's a pretty big decision. And it also brings a lot of confidence to the sales team because they're not being... They're not forcing anything on someone. They can put their head down at night like, hey, this doesn't work out. I won't get a bad reputation. So it really works out well on both sides.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Have you ever had anybody take advantage of it?

Scott Kreisberg
We've had one. It was an interesting situation where the suspicion is that they didn't really understand what would happen when they canceled. This company signed up and they had us do all our work and then they're like, Oh, we'd like to cancel. I'm like, oh, okay, sure, no problem. Here you go. And then when we do that, of course, we have to turn off all our services. Our whole cyber security stack has been installed. I mean, why would we do we wouldn't continue that for free? We didn't charge them to getting their money back. And they're like, What are you doing? What are you doing? I thought, what are you? So it only happened once and it smelled like they were just trying to take advantage of the situation. But otherwise, we haven't had to. But only once.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, look, the reason I asked that is not to point that out. My point in asking is anybody I've ever asked that, it's rare. It's rare. What the business that you win from having a guarantee is far more than the potential downside risk. The reality is anybody that's going to take advantage of that is not going to be a good fit for you long term anyway. So you're better off not working with them.

Scott Kreisberg
Let them go. Let them off.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I love the fact so few people that I talk to have guarantees. I think the important thing to think about with guarantees is it's got to be relevant and it has to be something that they see a benefit to. But you touched on it. One of the huge benefits is just putting that fear that people might have in working with somebody like you aside, and it eliminates. And if your competition doesn't have it, it helps differentiate you.

Scott Kreisberg
Absolutely. And a guarantee like that, though, with a newish company, our industry is filled with mom and pops. One to three, one to four, everybody's got a computer guy or girl or whatever, right? Person. And so if I made a guarantee like that and I would be like, What happens if you're not here? So being that we're a 35-year business and have withstood three major recessions and a pandemic to boot, we can stand behind it.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
Scott, what are your aspirations for the future?

Scott Kreisberg
Aspirations for the future. So we have, I guess, a mantra, but we have a goal of protecting a million people from the bad guys. And so we are just on a mission to protect as many people as we can. I have one book out right now, Cyberstorm, right here. And you can get that up on Amazon. I'm about to finish another book called Tame The Tech Beast, and that's in final editing right now. But yeah, what we'd like to do is just get the word out, help as many small to medium-sized businesses as possible. It's just a dangerous cyber world out there right now.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. It seems like every day on LinkedIn, I'm seeing somebody post something about a cyber attack, and a lot of small business owners overlook it, I think probably because we may not really understand the gravity of it and all the various ways that it can happen. Do you have any simple to implement cyber tips and how we can get started with it?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. I've got nothing special to offer here. What I can just do is emphasize that they should do it. The number of people that we work with that still don't use complex, unique passwords for every single site they log on to, they're setting themselves up. But the other thing is a different username even. So when you're creating an account on a site, most people have email, right? They'll put their email address. And so tim@gmail. Com, right? How many times have you used that? Well, that's layer one is gone because they know there's a real high probability of that. And so with things like Google or even Apple has hide my email right. So they can give you a unique email address that will funnel to your normal email address. So if you do a unique email address and a complex password, you're way ahead of the pack. The final thing would be absolutely any site that offers 2FA, two factor authentication, absolutely take advantage of it. Security is just not a convenient thing, but it's pretty easy now with these password managers. But yeah. Then the other thing is just if it smells fishy, it probably is. When we talk about seeking a mentor, seek somebody that you can bounce the idea. I actually know someone that was taken for about $20,000 because Facebook has bad customer service. And so they Googled Facebook support and of course, there's a bad actor up there and they clicked on it and they said, well, we can that for you. You need to get this money over here. We'll fix it for you and then we'll refund you the money. It's just a way to confirm you are who you are. It sounds crazy for you and I to hear about stories like that. But if it smells as is it's probably bad and just don't do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. One of the other things I saw recently too with phishing, where people are sending email messages, and please, correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the easy things that we can also do with phishing is just look at where is the email coming from? If somebody's sending you an email and it's Facebook, it needs to be Facebook.com or some type of subdomain of that. And all these phishing attempts, they're from different domains, correct?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah, 100 %. And so definitely have your mouse over it in the lower corner, normally left hand corner, you'll see URL. You definitely want to see like we're talking about for Facebook here, we're picking on them. But you should say, Facebook.com/whatever it is, as long as that main domain is there. But I'm sure you get your credit card statements digitally, right? So you get an email from Citi Bank or whatever it is, and you click on it to download. I don't do that even. I always tell people, I don't care if you're expecting the email.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Don't click on the link.

Scott Kreisberg
Don't click on the link ever. Just make that your habit. And then because everybody has or should have a password manager, so then go to Citi Bank, click on your known-to-be-good link. Just standardly, never ever use these links. Always use known-to-be-good.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because the way I look at cyber is like an alarm system on your house. If you're the only one in your neighborhood that has an alarm system, they're bound to go to your neighbor's houses first before they go to yours. So we just want to make it as difficult as possible, right?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. And this was just a short list. I mean, there's obviously.

Tim Fitzpatrick
A- Yeah, there's a lot more.

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It gets a lot more advanced. But thank you for sharing that. So I want to wrap up with one last question, Scott, which is knowing what you know now, is there anything you'd do differently?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah, absolutely. It's really, really hard too, because when you're growing a business, you'll hire someone and then you'll hire someone else and they can help you because they're helping you with this immediate need. Let's say you get a million dollars in revenue is one barrier. The next one is 5 million, the next one is 10, and then it goes to 20 or something like that. If you're struggling and you finally get to the million dollar mark and you got five people helping you there, going from one to five is a completely different set of skills. You might have a salesperson that got you where you got to, but they're not going to get you to the next level. Having the right people in the right seat that can do the job, but it's really hard. It's taken me decades to learn this lesson.

Tim Fitzpatrick
To get the right people in the right seat. One, as you were sharing that too, the other quote that came to mind, I have no idea where this came from, but we've all heard it, is what got you here won't get you there. So when you get to that 1 million, Mark, it's like, what got you to 1 million is not going to get you to five. Which, okay, let's go full circle. You need to find a mentor that has gone from one to five.

Scott Kreisberg
As a matter of fact, that's really key. Because I've matured from a mentor, now I have a board of advisors. So I meet with my board of advisors on a quarterly basis, and I have an attorney, an incredible business individual. I got an incredible marketing person in there, and they're ten times smarter than me. So having again, that mentorship, it doesn't stop there. It just keeps on going.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. Scott, where can people learn more about you?

Scott Kreisberg
Yeah. So all the usual places, onestepsecureit.com spelled out. Thank you. And of course, if you go to LinkedIn and just type my first and last name, you can get me there as well as the company is there. Our podcast is available on every platform as well. So we'll hopefully put yours up on ours as well. But if you go to any-.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, awesome. I love it. What's the name of your podcast?

Scott Kreisberg
One Step Beyond Cyber. Okay. Yeah. It is tied to One Step Beyond Cyber on any platform we'll come up.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. We will make sure that all of that is in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking the time. This was a fantastic conversation. I really appreciate you just sharing what you've learned over the last 35 years. So thank you, those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you doing so. We spent a lot of time talking about marketing, obviously, and Scott's journey there. If you're stuck, you need some help, outside eyes, you can always connect with us over at rialtomarketing.com. The other thing I will also tell you, if you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can figure that out over at RevenueRoadblockScorecard.com. It takes less than five minutes. So take advantage of that. Scott, thank you. Everybody that's watching and listening, thank you again. And until next time, take care.