Discover the Hidden Road to Happiness

May

13

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“Most people don’t understand the actual source of their unhappiness, so what they do to become happier doesn’t work.“ - This is a quote from our special guest, Steve Fredlund, and I think it is profound. How can you expect to become happier if you don’t know what’s causing you to be unhappy in the first place? As an actuarial, nonprofit, and small business leader, our guest knows the struggle to maintain happiness. He has been there, and he will share his thoughts on how you can become happier.

Join Steve Fredlund and Tim Fitzpatrick for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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Discover the Hidden Road to Happiness



Tim Fitzpatrick
Most people don't understand the actual source of their unhappiness. So what they do to become happier doesn't work. This is a quote directly from our special guest today, and I think it is extremely profound. I mean, how can we expect to become happier if we don't know what's causing us to be unhappy in the first place? As an actuarial, nonprofit, and small business leader, our guest knows the struggle to maintain happiness. He has been there and he will share his thoughts on how you can become happier. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe marketing shouldn't be difficult. All you need is the right plan. I'm super excited to have Steve Fredlund from Small Small Business with me today. Steve, welcome, and thank you for being here, man.

Steve Fredlund
Thanks so much, Tim. My pleasure. I'm excited for the conversation.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I'm excited to dig into this, man. Happiness is gosh, we all want to be happy, right?

Steve Fredlund
We hope so. That's the premise. I do.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's the goal. Sometimes we get off course. So hopefully if there are people watching, listening today, we can help them get back on course. Before we do that, I want to ask you some rapid fire questions. Help us get to know you a little bit. Are you ready to jump into this?

Steve Fredlund
I'm ready. Rapid fire away.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Awesome. I love it. So when you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

Steve Fredlund
Disc golfing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Disc golfing. Okay. I love it. What's your hidden talent?

Steve Fredlund
Juggling.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How many things can you juggle and what do you juggle?

Steve Fredlund
It's not real impressive. I used to be able to juggle four tennis balls at one time and then be able to do back and forth with another person, like up to six. But right now, three tennis balls or three of anything pretty much.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. No chainsaws or anything, though.

Steve Fredlund
No chainsaws. But people, I'm an actuary. I'm supposed to be super boring. So even the fact that I juggle astounds people.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What'S the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Steve Fredlund
Know yourself, know your strengths, know what makes you tick. Just really being self aware.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's one thing about you that surprises people?

Steve Fredlund
I think a lot of people are surprised that I'm an introvert. I'm not surprised when you hear the word actuary. You're not surprised. But I've done a lot of podcasting and done a lot of public speaking, and people are surprised that I'm actually very introverted, like being around people I love, but it drains me to no end.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What does success mean to you?

Steve Fredlund
I would say it's when your world is lined up with what you want it to be, whatever that is. So there's no definition for any one person. Success is having your life be consistent with what you want.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Where's your happy place?

Steve Fredlund
Rwanda, Africa.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I've never heard that one.

Steve Fredlund
I'm guessing yes. I was going to say Kibaruga, Rwanda, which is even more so, but I've done humanitarian work in Rwanda, Africa, and this one community called Kibaruga up in Northern Rwanda, up near Volcanoes National Park, where the mountain gorillas are. And tell you what, I've been there four times. And, man, there's no place like it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What qualities do you value in the people you spend time with?

Steve Fredlund
I would say two. One is that they are authentic. I don't like hanging out with people that I just feel like aren't genuine and that they're decent listeners because I'm a good listener. And so it's very easy for me to spend an hour and a half just listening to somebody. I need, somebody that's going to be mutually beneficial, that's also going to be interested in my story, willing to listen to what I have to say as well.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Love it. So before we jump into talking about happiness here, just tell us a little bit more about what you're doing, Steve, you're speaking, but then you've also got your company, Small Small business. Who are you working with? How are you helping folks?

Steve Fredlund
Yeah, I left the corporate world about three and a half years ago with really the overarching vision of helping communities become more vibrant, especially where I'm in east central Minnesota. So I've got a real heart for rural, smaller communities that have all these mom and pop shops. And I kind of asked the question, how can I contribute the most to helping our communities become more vibrant? And the answer is helping these small businesses. So when I say small business, I mean, usually they're really small business, the mom and pop shop, the Main Street Barber shop or whoever it might be the folks that are really kind of the lifeblood of the community, the people that live there, work there, play there, eat their, volunteer there, raise their kids there like the people that are in the community. If I can help them become more successful, I believe the community becomes more vibrant. And so that's why small business was born really intentionally with the two Smalls, which confuses some people. But the idea is to drive home the point that I'm really helping those folks succeed. And so that might look like coaching, consulting, training, masterminds, meeting facilitation. And I've got a network of people from around the world that have the same passion that I have. And so if it's something that I don't do specifically, I bring somebody in to help those folks out. So that's really the crux of it. But then I also do, like you mentioned, a fair amount of speaking. So I have a keynote speaker, breakouts workshops, that sort of thing, basically looking at whatever problems I've been working on, whatever problems I've solved, like happiness or I have some insights say, how can I take this message to the world? And so I do that through speaking.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How did you get involved in speaking about happiness?

Steve Fredlund
Yeah, that's interesting. I've spoken a lot my entire life, primarily because I was, like the only actuary in the companies I ever worked for that didn't mind getting up in front of people and talking. Whenever there was a conference or whatever, it was like, hey, well, Steve will talk. So I got into speaking that way. I really love it. I love that. I love theater. I love all that kind of stuff, which is why people are surprised I'm an introvert, but I think I'm really confident when somebody gives me a platform and say, hey, we want you to share. Like, I'm very confident there. I'm not going to bud my way in, but when somebody gives me a platform. So speaking has always been part of what I've done. And really, at the core, I'm a problem solver. Like, I consider myself a multipassionate serial problem solver. If I could just get paid every day to just solve problems, I'd be happier than anybody. But one of the things that I really was working on was why was I unhappy, like, 15 years ago in different stages of my career where I was just so unhappy, even though my life on paper was so good and I couldn't figure out what that was like, I had just gotten promoted. I was employee of the year. My marriage is great. My kids were great. I was making a bunch of money, but I was miserable. And so as I dug into that, and I started sharing that with a few other people, they're like, that makes so much sense. That explains my situation, too. And so I solve problems. And then once I get some insights, I feel like I just need to share those. And so I started sharing just the insights I've had about happiness locally. A little Chamber of commerce meetings here and there, and that kind of grew people like, that's a message people need to hear. And so I've been sharing that more broadly since then.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, let's dig into it then. Why is happiness such an important business topic? I know some people may not really think of it that way, but we spend more time at work than we do anywhere else.

Steve Fredlund
It's a huge business issue because people that are happier are more engaged on the job. And I know employee engagement is sort of that Holy grail that everybody's after, right? We all want engaged employees because engaged employees are whatever, 27% more productive. And the retention is so much better. And so really happiness at work becomes an employee engagement issue, becomes a productivity issue, becomes a retention issue. And so it really becomes a bottom line issue. And when I'm talking about happiness, I'm not necessarily talking about, hey, I'm going to run around with a red hat and be super funny or whatever. That might be your thing. I'm talking about that core authentic happiness that we have as people when we are at work and things like worklife balance. I understand the premise of it, but I think that has done a bit of a disservice for a lot of people because we tell them, hey, as long as you have work life balance, your job can really suck. You can be really unhappy. You can be miserable. But as long as you have that 40 to 50 hours of terribleness balanced with some goodness, things are okay. And I think ultimately that leads to employee disengagement. And so this is about how can we in our jobs while we're running a business, while we're in a career, whatever it is, how can we actually find more happiness in the middle of our work?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So you're talking about in the middle of our work. Do you find some people have a hard time being happy while they're working towards reaching something? They feel like I'll be happy when I hit that point.

Steve Fredlund
Yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do a lot of us fall into that trap?

Steve Fredlund
A lot of us do fall into that trap. And the reality is a lot of times when we get there, we're not happy anyway because we view happiness as the accumulation of something. And whether that's time, money, cars, promotion, title, we think that's going to make us happier. And I know this is a cliche, but it typically doesn't because if you're kind of the type of person where you're wired by what makes me happy is out there, and I'm going to pursue that, and I'm going to achieve that when you get there, because that seems so far away, it feels like a big jump. But by the time you get there, it's been such incremental steps that you've already moved on to the next goal that's out there. And so it's always going to be out there. It's always going to be out there. I'm going to be happy that day, some day when and it's never going to get there because you're always going to keep adjusting that goal versus finding that happiness that says despite no matter what the future holds, no matter what situation I'm in, how can I be more happy now that's going to actually lead you to greater happiness. And so that's why the word contentment is oftentimes almost a better word for some of this, too. For some of us that are in the business world or running our own small business, being content is more like right now, being happier with what we have. I think it's good to have goals, it's good to have vision, it's good to go after those things. But if that is your source of happiness some day in the future, it's probably always going to be some day in the future.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So what have you found is the core driver of happiness and unhappiness for a lot of us?

Steve Fredlund
Yeah. Because we all define happiness differently and because we're all wired differently, there's no like one magic thing. It kind of drives me up here's the seven things to make you happier. Well, for some people, that works because that lines up with their personality. But for a lot of us, we do those seven things and we're not happier. And we think, what's wrong with me? Those things do a disservice. I think it's more complicated and it's more simple than that. I think what drives our happiness is when our reality is lined up with our core identity. When those two things, because that sounds simple. But it's complicated. Right. But whenever we recognize who we are, whenever we're clear on who we are, how we're wired, what we want out of life, not what other people expect of us, not what we think we should want, not what's always been done before, but what do we truly authentically want? What's our core identity? Who am I? What do I want? Where do I want to go? How do I want to get there? Who do I want to get there with? When we can really understand who we are as people, and then our reality starts to line up with that, that's the definition of happiness. If you think about anything that you're happy about is probably like, say you're happy your child graduated high school. Well, that's because what you want to happen is lined up with what's actually happening. Like, it's as simple as that. When you're unhappy that your child is not graduating high school, it's because what you want them graduating is not what reality is. Unhappiness is just when things are lined up with who we are and what we want and unhappiness is when there's misalignment. So I think the core driver of that then becomes knowing who you are and intentionally making decisions to try to bring your reality into alignment with that. And it's different for everybody because we're all different and we all want different things.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So this is not a one size fits all deal here. But if I'm hearing you correctly, this all really starts with who we are and what we want. So if we're going to be happy, we need to clearly understand what it is we want.

Steve Fredlund
Yeah, it is. Clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity. I know there's a quote attributed to Albert Einstein that said, if I had an hour to solve a problem, I'd spend 55 minutes on the problem and five minutes on the solution. It's all about clarifying what the problem is. And it's the same thing with this. If you have to know who you are and what you want authentically, truly. And that can be a really hard question for people to answer. I mean, I ask people, why do they have their own small business? They can't answer that, much less, who are you? What do you really want out of life? What does that really look like? How do you want to feel when you wake up in five years and people have a hard time answering that? But it's like Alice in Wonderland. If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there. And so if you actually want to be happier, you have to know what makes you happy. In general, and I was the same way, like 20 years ago, ten years ago, probably five years ago, I didn't really even know what made me happy. I thought i did.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How do you go about what's the process for going through and actually discovering that?

Steve Fredlund
Yeah, again, that depends on your personality as well. But for me, I can share what worked for me because I'm an analytical person and I was always sort of anti these personality tests. Like, what a joke those things were. One time I had to take one if I'm getting promoted and they're like, okay, we need you to take the disk profile on this one. I'm like, what is the point of that? What's that going to tell you about me? So I was very resistant to those until I realized that understanding how I was wired, especially like my strengths, the role that that played in my happiness. And I can tell you a whole story about that. But ultimately I came to realize that my unhappiness at work was when my job was not lined up with my strengths with who I really was. I got promoted out of a problem solving role into a management role, and I was not even leveraging any of my strengths. And so I realized, oh, my gosh, this actually makes a difference. And so for me, what really helped is I actually ended up taking up a bunch of personality tests on my own. And then I would look for the themes in them. What is it telling me about myself? And then that was sort of the path that led me down, really truly understanding about myself. And then I surrounded me, myself with a few people that I thought, these guys are going to speak truth in me. They're going to actually be able to ask me the right questions. And I said, hey, you guys, I want to figure out who I am, not who I think I am, not based on my best, but who am I really? What do I really want? What honestly gives me life, not what should give me life, not what people expect to give me life, what truly gives me life. And it was very hard. It was a very difficult process. And so I would say involve whatever your style is, but learn stuff yourself, but then surround people with you that aren't going to take your BS crap answers. They're going to actually dig in and say, I don't think so. You say that makes you happy, but I've seen you in those situations, and that doesn't seem to make you happy. Does that really make you happy and just really kind of dig in and kind of get dirty. And so that's sort of what worked for me because it's very easy to kind of just fly over that answer. Who am I? We all think we know, but I think it's harder than we realized because we have so much experience and baggage and expectations that have been heaped on us. So that can be really tough to really know.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you think this is one of those things like, are we really ever done? Like, you do that initial work, but we're always changing and so some of the things we want are changing. But I completely agree with you, and it's funny, we're both analytical, so we both went about this the same way. I don't know how many personality profiles I've taken, but it's quite a few. And because they're all slightly different. But like you, I was looking for those common themes that were coming up, and that really did help me better understand myself, my strengths, what I'm good at. But I also think too, it's just like, gosh, this could just be as simple as you go through your day. Like, what are you enjoying doing? What gives you energy? What's effortless for you that you're really effective at? Just starting to keep track of some of those things, I think will start to leave some clues for most of us.

Steve Fredlund
Yes, I think those are two other things that I would suggest. One is sort of looking back broadly and one is kind of the real time piece. So that log is phenomenal. It's like if you're dieting or you want to write down your calories, that sort of thing, but just go through the day exactly when you said whether it's if you want to do sequentially top of every hour kind of recorded or it's just when you're doing different things, say, okay, here's what I did, okay, I spent 2 hours working on the spreadsheet to try to optimize a macro or something, and I loved it and then spent 30 minutes on phone call with Tim Fitzpatrick and that was terrible, whatever it is, but kind of putting those things down. So I think that sort of log because when you're doing it that way, you're not really looking for themes. And then a week from now, you could even give it to someone to say, hey, look at this, what themes do you see? But you can see them yourself. Things will stand out for sure. They'll stand out. And the other one that I loved doing and I've done this with a few of my clients is to actually go back over your working world as far back as you can remember and don't even get into the details of what you're doing, but maybe get into when were you the most happiest in your life? Kind of chart that out, happy, not happy, whatever. And then look at your job, what were you doing and what was your job for each of those and then say, how aligned was your job to your strengths? And for me, that was just like the correlation was super high. I was happiest on my job because I used to blame my manager. I used to blame the company. I used to blame this or the other or give them praise for why I was happy and sad. When I looked at that, it wasn't really so much the company or the manager. It was what was I doing on my job if I was in a mode of problem solving, I was so happy. If I was in a mode of management, I was unhappy. And I'm like, I didn't even realize this. It really wasn't my manager. It really wasn't my boss, either good or bad. It was how I was leveraging my strengths on the job. And that was just, like, blew my mind.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So how can we protect or increase our happiness going forward? We need to understand ourselves, know our strengths, know what we want, and try and bring that in alignment with our reality. What can we do?

Steve Fredlund
I'd say a couple of things intentionality. So when you're making decisions about your job, your career, big or small, your family relationships, moving, whatever it is, be intentional about looking at what you understand about yourself. So you're making that decision in the context of that. So that should at least be an input into your decision is taking this job, moving here, what is that going to do to how I'm wired who I really am? So use that as another lens to look at things through. We always look at things like in a company, we look at things through the HR lens and the finance lens and the customer service lens, and we look at it through all these different lenses, right? Well, add that lens of your own personal satisfaction, your own personal happiness to the mix. So that's one way to do it. Another one is surround yourself with the right people that can actually give you advice and then lean on them a little bit and say, hey, I'm thinking about doing this. I'm thinking about expanding my business with this. I'm thinking about taking on an employee. I'm thinking about adding a location in Nebraska. What do you think based on what you know about me, how do you think that's going to fit with me long term? And so having the right people around you that can actually not necessarily hold you accountable, but give insight because we forget, right? If you're driven like me as a business leader, you're like, man, that sounds like a good idea. I'm going to do that because I think we can expand and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's going to grow the business. And I forgot, oh, yeah, I don't want to manage people. So pretty soon I expand, and now I need to find somebody that kind of oversees that area. And now I've got to manage them. And that sucks. And I'm bad at it. I need the people around me to say, well, you know, you don't like managing people. Is this something you can expand and totally offload, or are you going to have to be involved in making sure they're doing their job kind of stuff? So I think having the right people around you that can help remember who you are when you forget because you're so driven by expanding the business.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I think it's very easy. The way somebody described this to me a week ago really resonated with me. I always talk about like, we can't see the forest through the trees, but this guy said we're too close to the fire. Right. It's the same concept. It's very difficult for us as business owners to think objectively about our business. So getting outside eyes from those that know us well and understand our business, I think is incredibly helpful.

Steve Fredlund
It is. And for me, my spouse can be that perfect person. They can drive me crazy because I'll talk about something. She'll be like, that doesn't seem like you want to do it because I'm like, who are you to tell me you don't know my business? But she knows me, right. And so she can serve that way, even though I might be like, oh, yeah, that kind of thing. It's good. Those are the kind of people that you need in your life. You don't need all the yes men and the yes women that are thinking that everything you're doing is great. You need those people that are going to say, well, let's at least think about this. Like you said, you're too close to the fire. Let's take a step back. Let's look at the fire from over here, from this angle. Once that can look like you're going to end up in the fire if you do that. I like that analogy a lot.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So what I'm taking away from this is there is no shortcut to happiness, right? There is no one framework, but there is a process. And that process starts with understanding ourselves, what we want, what our strengths are, what our weaknesses, and slowly making our reality in alignment with that.

Steve Fredlund
Yeah. I'm a math guy, so there's got to be a formula involved. Right. But clarity plus intentionality equals happiness. And there are some people that are more predisposed to happiness than others, sort of my wife, when I first told her I'm going to be talking about happiness because I've started to figure some things out, she's like, well, are you really a happy person? Well, I am. I know, right? But I'm not your Enneagram seven. I'm not going to run up on stage with a red hat and be kind of the fun guy and all that kind of stuff. But my happiness is much more internal, authentic for me, contentedness, excited about life kind of thing. And so, yeah, you got to kind of define happiness in different ways. But for me, that's ultimately what it is for everybody. It's clarity on who you are, plus intentionality around making decisions aligned with that. And that's where happiness comes from. I know we're probably getting close to time, but I think about, like, our okay, but our backbone, like our physical backbone in our bodies is sort of like the central support structure for our body. And the last few years, mine has been bugging me a little bit more, probably because I'm overweight. But part of it is because it's getting misaligned. There's some misalignment there. And what happens is I start to get a little agitated and start losing sleep. And I become irritable and becomes painful and all this stuff. And then I go to the chiropractor. They're like, well, you're out of alignment. You're out of alignment. So we need to crack it back in and do some therapy and do some things. And then it starts feeling better. And I feel like that's what happens with our happiness is that when we are misaligned, when we are doing things, being asked to do things in our job or we're running things in our small businesses that aren't really aligned with who we are, it's the same sort of thing. It starts with just a little bit of chronic discomfort. But if we don't address it, if we don't get it realigned, we start losing sleep, we start getting stressed, we become irritable, we become unhappy. And so to me, that's a really good analogy. And so it's all about that alignment, but it starts with clearly identifying who you are and then intentionally moving those things into alignment.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I think that's one of the things that I really love about entrepreneurship and business ownership is I think we have so much more control over being happy than we would if we were working for somebody else, because there's only so many things you can do when you're working for somebody else, right? If you don't like it, you got to go find another job. But in business, we can make changes within our business to help align with what we want and what's going to make us happy. So I don't know. That's just my thought on it.

Steve Fredlund
I think that's so good because we have more control than we realize, because we make so many decisions by default or what we should do or what other people's expectations are of us. We don't realize we have more control than we realize, especially as small business owners really, in every area of life, I can choose who I want to hang out with more than I realized. We just think, well, these are the people I'm kind of stuck with. No, you can move people away and you can bring people in. This business thing, I'm going through this right now with my business. I kind of went down a road listening to the experts of what I should do. And I'm like, this isn't who I am. You know what? I might be more successful doing that that's just not who I am. And I could just say, well, that's what the experts tell me to do. Or I can say, you know what? No, the reason I left the corporate world so that I can have the kind of business that I really wanted to help, the kind of people I really want to help. And I'm going to do this. And you might say it's ridiculous, but it's going to be true and authentic to who I am, and it's going to make me happy. And I have that control. People might think I'm crazy, but I'm going to have to be okay with that because this is what I want. I want to be authentically happy.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I was in a business group for a while, and one of the core beliefs behind that group was that you make your own business rules. And that's always stuck with me because it's like, well, should I do this? Well, you make your own business rules. Yeah, you told me we have a lot more control. And just because I think a lot of times we get this monkey on our back where we're like, oh, gosh, I can't do that. Well, no. Yeah, you can. Just because other people say you can't doesn't mean you can't. So if that's what's going to make you happy and get your business to where you want it to be, then by all means, don't do it.

Steve Fredlund
Yeah, I love that. Make your own rules.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So, Steve, this has been fantastic, and I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your thoughts with us on happiness. Any last minute thoughts you want to leave us with?

Steve Fredlund
Man always been. It's a great conversation. I want to hear more about your business and what you guys are. But as far as what I want to share, no, I would say just keep getting more and more clear. Like you said, it might be an ongoing process for you, but clearly identify it's just like setting your vision for your business. Right? Where are you trying to go? Do the same thing for yourself. Get a clear vision for the kind of life that you want to live that's congruent with who you really are. And if you want some outside help, I'm happy to be of assistance to that. I do a free consultation so you can get a hold of me. I see the website going smallsmallbusiness.com. Sign up for a free 30 minutes deal. But no, I mean, just check out those websites. You want to connect with me, connect with me on LinkedIn. But I would say for many years, I rolled. Well, I'll say this probably ten years ago. If I had heard myself talking like this today, I would have been rolling my eyes. I would have been like, oh, my God, seriously, just go to work. Just grab your lunch pail, go to work, put in your eight to five and come home. Have a beer and watch the game like happiness is an illusion. I probably would have told you ten years ago and so there might be people listening to this even that maybe they've already shut off but if they're listening to this still they might be kind of like rolling my eyes a little bit like, whatever, dude, just go to work. If that's you that's listening, I want to encourage you rethink it because I've rethought it and I wish I would have gotten my head on straight 25 years ago that I could actually be happier in my job. I could be happier in my business and there are some real things that you can do. So I just want to encourage people if it's sort of tugging at you that man, I'd love to be happier but it seems impossible. Here's your chance setting yourself up for future happiness.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Steve, thank you so much. Those of you watching listening, you can go to stevefredlund.com which is where your speaking stuff is, correct, right? Or you can go to smallsmallbusiness.com where Steve has his coaching consulting services laid out there as well. So this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you, Steve. I really do appreciate it. Again, guys. I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing. If you want to see consistent, repeatable results with your marketing, you got to have a plan. Everything starts with a plan. There is no perfect plan but you got to start with a plan. So if you want to put your marketing plan together in minutes rather than hours or days, head on over to growthmarketingplan.com that's growthmarketingplan.com. Our 90-day marketing plan toolkit is there. You can download it. All the resources, the templates the 90-day plan template that we use is there everything you need growthmarketing plan.com or you can always head on over to rialtomarketing.com, R-I-A-L-T-O marketing.com and connect with us that way. So thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate you and till next time. Take care.


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