Driving Improvement With Roast Sessions As A Feedback Mechanism

Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience.

Join Tim Fitzpatrick and Anthony Mini for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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Driving Improvement With Roast Sessions As A Feedback Mechanism

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a Revenue Accélération Series interview where we talk to seven-figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth, and marketing shouldn't be difficult. I am super excited to have Anthony Mini with Pearl Technology with me today. Anthony, welcome and thanks for being here.

Anthony Daniel Mini
Yeah, thanks for having me, Tim.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I'm excited to dig into this with you. Before we do that, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions just to kick things off. So you ready to rock and roll?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Sounds great. Yeah. Okay.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Anthony Daniel Mini
All right. Currently, as the President, I've been in the seat for a little over a year. Before that, I was a vice president of operations. Been at Pearl Technology for three years. In my current role, tasked with obviously the strategic vision of the company, knowing what our technology trends are, but most importantly, how that aligns with our customers. And then we design solutions based on those capabilities with our people and our processes. And then from there, pretty much just monitoring the execution of our service delivery. And not to throw too many buzzwords right out the gate, but KPI is just knowing how we're performing, what those indicators are, and monitor and improving from there is most important.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. So since you stepped into the president seat a year ago, what's the most important thing you've learned?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Coming out, especially vice president operations, and being just a huge nerd, right? Coming out of the technology aspect of every minute of every day, putting the President hat on truly understanding our customers requirements as we sell technology, not just for technology's sake, but understand what their limitations are, what are their driving forces, what are their pain points. And then from there, getting into the technical engineering of designing solutions. But that's probably been the biggest learning curve for me is just taking a step out of the tech, understanding the business requirements, but then connecting those two. So the technical background definitely helps drive solutions.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. And I love that. Selfishly, Anthony, from a marketing standpoint, everything starts with the customer, and understanding the customer. If you don't have that, it's really difficult for everything after that to be in alignment. So thank you for sharing that. Now, man, we all know growing a business is hard. Do you have any mantra, motivational saying that you say to yourself or share with your team to push through those those times where you hit roadblocks?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Yeah, I know we had talked the other day, 23 years coming out of the Air Force. Our mantra there was just saying America and pressing through embracing the suck. But now I'm in a corporate America I got to come up with a better mantra. So it sounds cliché, but failing forward. We're always doing some type of problem solving to something that's never existed before, right? I mean, the things we're even doing today didn't exist a year ago. So getting people comfortable with that failing forward, obviously trying things and learning from our mistakes. That's probably our mantra here is just continuing to press through and embracing the failure as long as you're learning from it. But that's that's probably the biggest. If you're a perfectionist, it's a difficult industry to be in because it's hard for everything to line up, but just pressing through. So that's where we go.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's such a great mantra, right? Because a lot of people that work for companies, they're afraid to fail, right? Because they're afraid that there's going to be repercussions there. But in an environment where failure is embraced and it's something to learn from and move on, right? People are, I think, a lot more apt to own their mistakes, learn from them and push through. So I love that.

Anthony Daniel Mini
I'll give my wife some credit. She made me pretty comfortable in the feeling of inadequacy and going home and just knowing, Hey, I know where I sit. So I'm good with that. 

Acquiring Complementary Businesses is a Double-edged Sword

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's good. So I know you had mentioned, Anthony, that you recently stepped into the president role. And this was after Pearl had acquired three companies. Can you share with us what type of companies you acquired and what that process was like?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Yeah. As you said, I came in after the fact, so I didn't get to see what led into the actual acquisitions other than, probably about six months later, I joined the team and we acquired a data center company. So we have two large data centers. We acquired a security operations center in a cybersecurity business and then also an audio-visual. So we do a lot of large and integration with audio-visual equipment. So for me, again, in that operational realm, it's just getting my head around the technical aspects of all of the different vendors, all of the different trends, and just understanding from the ground up who we were and what we were doing. But I think it's a double-edged sword because everyone's excited, right? You're growing through acquisition. It is a definitely exciting thing. However, every step you take forward, you almost got to take two back because for a company need to be successful, you have to have the infrastructure in place to support that, whether it's the marketing arm or just the vision that aligns with all four businesses. So at first, you're almost running them separately until you can get that infrastructure in place, get that culture established, and take a good look in the mirror and say, well, who are we now? We know who we were separately, but what are our strengths now that we're converged and have those synergies? And that just takes time. You might have an idea, but it takes a days and months to play out to see where that really is and then identifying how you're going to move forward from there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I would imagine. It's hard enough to integrate companies that you acquire, period. But a lot of business owners that I interview that have grown through acquisition are acquiring similar companies. A managed service provider acquires another managed service provider. In this case, you guys acquired complementary businesses that you wanted to fold into the mix so that you had a more comprehensive and extensive offering. It's a totally different beast, isn't it?

Anthony Daniel Mini
That's the exciting part. And then because they are different, there is a lot of infrastructure requirements, especially audiovisual, pretty heavy on the infrastructure. And if you want to talk in the geek speak of the OSI later, a lot of the physical aspects to that. And then you get into your service provider and a lot of the applications. So just getting all of those things to align. And they do. They have a lot of synergies, to your point, very complementary of each other. So once the processes and everything got in place and we started right in that synergy, then it just took time, but it is very exciting.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Now, since you stepped into the role as president, what have you been focusing on to drive growth?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Taking a step back, having observed and learned how the company has grown through those acquisitions and knowing who we are, then it comes down to, okay, who is our ideal mission partner? And we truly believe that we're a central Illinois-based company, and we have some amazing customers, and we believe in their mission. So finding out how we can enhance each organization that we are dealing with in those separate companies, but then to bring in those complementary services, really made us take a step back on who are we now and who is the ideal mission partner that we can work closely with. So that was pretty much the first step of driving our growth.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And when you talk about ideal mission partner, you're talking about your ideal clients?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Correct. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. When you took a step back and took the time to think about that, do you remember what you did? I mean, were you talking to people on the team? Were you looking at your current and past client list? What did that process look like?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Not to give too much credit to strategic plans because plans are useless. Planning is vital. But to your point, that's when it hit, right, during the planning process. So knowing where your vendors are going is important, right? Because we're selling technology and they're coming up with new technologies every day. So that was the basis of knowing where the industry is going across multiple different products that we're selling and getting our head around that. And then also knowing our customers requirements which are changing. But to your point, going through business review meetings with them, paying attention. We got two ears and one mouth. So just listening and understanding and capturing that and then sharing it, putting all of that together, really, as you look back, you can doubt the the lines looking backwards. That's how it all came together. It took time. I mean, there was no crystal ball, but through that process, we were able to establish what our current state is, what our future state, and where those mission partners aligned.

Tim Fitzpatrick
When you understand who your ideal clients are, everything after that becomes simpler. I'm not going to say it's easy, but it can help you make the best decisions possible. It's like a measuring stick. It's like, Hey, we're thinking about doing this. Well, is that something our ideal clients would find valuable? Yes or no? If it's a no, then you need to really question why you're actually doing it. The other way I think about it, too, is understanding your ideal clients. It's that fuel that's going to get those marketing vehicles or growth vehicles that you choose to employ where they need to go. So kudos to you for taking the time to do that. Most businesses do not take the time to really do that. But you're taking time now so that you can go faster later.

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The Concept of Holding Regular Roast Sessions

Tim Fitzpatrick
One of the things that I found fascinating when we connected in the pre-interview was you talked about this concept of holding regular roast sessions. And I love this. I think there's a ton that people can learn from this. So can you share what the heck are these and why do you do them?

Anthony Daniel Mini
I guess the concept comes from when you see a person retire at the end of their career, a lot of them are comedians and they get roasted, right? And it's hilarious. A lot of people have tendencies, so you laugh at what's brought up. I just thought it was unfortunate that some people hear these things at the end of their career. So when you merge three, four companies together, you're going to have a lot of different cultures. And the first thing you can do is try to establish a climate that will then create that universal culture. And to do that, you need strong feedback mechanisms. And if your evaluation program is doing that, great. Sometimes an evaluation program can be corporate theater. So you need to have a strong mechanism to get feedback, and it has to start at the top. So as the President direct reports will all meet in a room, and there's a specific rules of engagements to this process because it's very important that you do it correctly, and you don't want it to look like you're witch hunting or have any agenda. So essentially what you're doing is just asking the people who you might have just met in the last year or two. It might be highly introverted technical people. Maybe they have some things going on that they're just not telling you. So to pull it out of people right on a whiteboard, so many numbers of things that I'm asking for them to tell me, hey, continue to do these. And then I have an area of, hey, these are areas of improvement. And I talk through the methodology and then I leave. And I give the team a couple hours to write down those things they want me to continue and those things that they want me to improve on. And then in two hours, I ask that they leave. And when I come in, the litmus test is how much it hits you, right? If If you don't make a no face or what the heck moment, then they didn't trust you to give it to you. But when you look at it, I highly recommend sitting down first. It can hit pretty hard. I tell everyone I can't change who I am overnight, but being aware of whatever tendencies I have or things I'm doing that might be misunderstood, I'm going to take it to heart and I'm going to come up with a plan, whether it's reading a book, getting a mentor, but I'll start working on those things. And from there, everyone understands, Hey, you're really trying. You really care about their feedback. And then you ask those same people, Hey, if you get the opportunity, you have enough time with your team, I ask that you do the same thing. Extend that courtesy all the way to the front line so that as a company, we have that culture of respect, but also just continuous improvement that we're just all humans trying to get better. When we're just selling technology, it's a commodity, right? They could buy technology from anybody, but they want it from someone they can trust. That human element is what differentiates us from a lot of other companies.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, Anthony, I want to make sure I got this right. And how often do you do these?

Anthony Daniel Mini
For me, once a year.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Once a year, you get all your direct reports in a room, you give them the guidelines, and you write up on a whiteboard two things. And remind me, one was what they want you to keep doing.

Anthony Daniel Mini
Continue.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Continue. And the other is where you can improve?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Correct. Yeah. Okay.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So two columns on the whiteboard, and then you leave, and they just put everything that comes to mind.

Anthony Daniel Mini
Yeah. Well, they brainstorm together. And there's a limited number just to keep it simple. And each person essentially gets one continuing, one improve. But they have to convince the group. So there's a lot of laughing. There's a lot of joking going on, too, as they're roasting. They're having a good time with it, but it's in one person's handwriting, so I don't know who's- Yeah, who did it. Completely anonymous. And they have to convince everybody. If they're saying, Hey, he's a poor communicator, then everyone needs to chime in. And it's not just one person dominating that conversation.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Which is why this takes a couple hours to do.

Anthony Daniel Mini
They probably could go all day with me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So how many different things? What's the limit for each one of these columns?

Anthony Daniel Mini
So what I do is if there's five people, I do six, continue six, improve. Each person gets one. But then there's a wild card in there. So that helps you change up of knowing who did what because there's an extra one in there. But also, if there's some reoccurring item, get that extra one in there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But then after that, when you go into the room, they're gone. So it's really just you digesting this. And do you come back and meet with them after this, or do you just take it and let them know, Hey, I appreciate the feedback, and I'm going to be working on these things.

Anthony Daniel Mini
Yeah, that's in the introduction that it's going to be an awkward ending. I've had some people give me input initially that they wanted to be in the room. And my advice on that is you don't want to agree to disagree. You don't want to get to the 99 yard line. The whole exercise. So just to leave that variable out, I ask that they leave. And yeah, you'll see them the next day and they'll look at you like, are you going to say something? And I've already communicated the fact that it's going to take me time. I'm not going to ask who said what. Just know that I know. And they appreciate the fact that depending on what's going on, if they really had something that they had to get off their chest, they feel really good about that or you got to stick it to the man or whatever.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, but they're going to be able to see long term whether... I mean, look, the things that they want you to keep doing, that's much easier for you, right? Because you're already doing it. It's the things where you need to improve. They're going to see whether you're taking those things to heart and whether you're trying to implement them over time, right?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Correct. Yeah. As I say, the continues aren't just to hear good stuff about myself. It's just that as you try to improve yourself, you don't want to lose what you did have going on. That's the point of that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Of course. You don't want to stop doing what's working well for you and your team. I love that. And I actually like the fact I've never had anybody talk about this in this way because most people would think about this being a very hands-on thing where you're involved, but taking yourself out of the picture, I think you get much more honest answers and feedback, and they're not afraid of any retaliation coming out of it, right? And so I love it. Roast sessions. Super strong feedback mechanism.

Anthony Daniel Mini
I will say this as an introduction. A lot of people will give their employee an evaluation. And at the end, they're like, you got anything for me? And it's like, if you got a really good evaluation, you're not going to ruin it by then telling your boss, hey, you're not doing well, right? So it's a weak way to go about it, but yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I really like this. I think people can take this concept and we can all benefit from doing this.

Using Case Studies and Tracking Branding

Tim Fitzpatrick

Anthony, I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about marketing. I'm going to We're going to talk about marketing, right? So I wanted to dig into two marketing concepts, one that's working well and another one that's a challenge. First is case studies, which has helped your marketing efforts. Tell us more about this. How many do you have? How did you go about the process and anything else that you think might be of value?

Anthony Daniel Mini
As we built the new company, post-acquisition, we redid our website And as we were brainstorming the most powerful content on the website, we asked ourselves what we looked for. And a social proof of a company's capability is demonstrated, obviously, through a case study. And you get to not only see the customers they're working with, but the solutions they design. So we thought that it was one of the most important things we're going to have to get after. And the team did an amazing job just creating the layouts and creating the content. And we started putting those on our website. And they are their most powerful marketing tool we have because technology is difficult. It's not something you can really put your hands on. And we're not selling bicycles or things that people can see. So they have to try to understand what that solution, what that problem was that we solved in the case studies, especially when you're building your reputation within a region or an area and people know those companies and respect those companies. And so that was probably the most powerful thing we had.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Are your case studies shorter or are they pretty long? I mean, how many pages?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Try to keep it one page. I have massive ADHD myself. So for me to look at it, yeah, we got to keep it quick. But sometimes we get to two pages.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. I always tell people, one or two pages, you want to focus on problem they had, what the process was like to solve that, and what the outcome or the result was, right? That's really what people care about. So if we keep it simple, concise, shortened to the point, and if you can give specific data sets or specific numbers, that's always super beneficial. But like you said, so many of the companies that I work with are they're in B2B professional services where, man, it's all about trust, credibility, authority, and having case studies. Testimonials are great. Case studies are another level above that. But both of those are really low hanging fruit for most businesses that they're there. They just haven't taken the time to pull them out. And gosh, if that's one of the couple of things that you pull away from this interview, I think, man, you're going to be well-served. Go implement Roast sessions and get some case studies. You're going to be in great shape. Certainly a good place to start. So the second thing, when we connected before, you talked about tracking ROI on branding. That's a challenge. What types of branding are you doing and what have you done to try to track Yeah, again, talking about being a regional marketing effort, we do have a pretty significant radio campaign going.

Anthony Daniel Mini
And we have a weekly podcast that one of our managing partners does, Dave, with the Greg and Dan show, he does a public service by really sharing a lot of cybersecurity updates, which has a pretty huge following. But then we have commercials throughout the day. And I think for me, it's hard to stick out in a hyper competitive, noisy world of radio. So we do have tools that will track conversions on, hey, you ran a commercial at this time and X amount of people hit your website. But from a branding standpoint, it is powerful. A lot of people, we get a lot of word of mouth feedback from it. So recently, we launched a thing called Operation Jalapeno. And coming out of the military, again, I just give everything an operation name. But this one is to spice and up our radio commercials. And we're excited to launch them here real soon and to see how they do. But again, just trying to make sure that we're being heard, because I think if you're talking about your solutions, people don't want to be sold to. So people want to know what you do, right? So we do some pretty advanced things, which is hard to say without saying it. But we have some some radio ads that we've been working on, spicing up.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's a couple of things I'll add here because tracking ROI on marketing is a challenge for a lot of businesses. Certain aspects in certain marketing vehicles are much easier to track than others. Branding is one that is really difficult. And my personal opinion is that trying to track branding return on investment, you're just going to drive yourself crazy. It's just, can you do... If you do a radio ad or you do a TV commercial, can you send people to a specific link? Or can you have call tracking? Absolutely, you can. And if you can do those kinds of things, you can try and start to track some of that activity. But overall branding for most small businesses, branding should be a small portion of your overall marketing budget. The rest of it, I believe, should be invested in things that you can more directly track. And brand building is a byproduct of that. Because, yeah, you talk to people to try to really track branding efforts? Can you track Hayes? Are the overall visits to our website increasing? Okay, cool. But can you attribute all of those to your branding activities? No, you can't. But you can use data sets like that to try and gage whether some of your branding efforts are yielding some results, but you're going to have a really hard time tracking it directly back. Whereas with social or content, you can determine, Hey, how many people are coming to our site from this? And are they actually taking actions that we want them to take? That becomes simpler to track. Again, I'm not going to say it's easy because you got to take the time to put it in place. But super common challenge, and especially, yeah, like radio. That's a tough one.

Anthony Daniel Mini
Yeah. To your point, a little more precision on those marketing efforts compared to the branding. But the branding is such a broad stroke of an effort to get out there, and people hear your name, and then they know who they can call if they need you. But the only feedback we really get from a Pulse standpoint is just the verbal of people saying, yeah, I hear you on the radio. And that definitely helps and makes it feel good and return on the investment.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, no doubt about it. So, Anthony, looking back on your experience with Pearl, what are the top 2-3 things that stand out for you?

Anthony Daniel Mini
I think just, I don't know, any technology company is obviously in a state of transition every day. But for us, it was having that vision of who we are, where we're going, and then developing a strategy that you write down. It's really easy to get in a conversation just like this and for us to agree on some initiatives and some direction. But if we don't truly write it down and then establish what our objectives and goals to hold our self accountable, it'll just spin, right? So I think the most important thing for us was writing down those plans, having those objectives and really moving forward on them. But at the same time, that's a lot of structure. You had to have the flexibility to take a step back and just adjust and say, hey, you know what? We're balancing a lot of different competing priorities. And this thing that we're doing over here is actually now more important, and we're going to focus on that. So I think being open, having a lot of structure and being open, double-edged sword there. But that's been the key to success for us is having that plan and moving forward on it, holding each other accountable to it. That's probably the most important thing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I'll add to that because look, I'm a huge planning person, but I think most of us overcomplicate plans because we make them too long. The way I think about marketing planning is a year long marketing plan. It's just not a good use of time because it's too long a period of time. Things change so rapidly that any year long marketing plan, even after the first 90 days, isn't the same. And so when I look at planning, I look at planning in 90 day sprints or twelve week sprints. It keeps plan simple, but it keeps you focused, right? Because if you don't have a plan, an idea of where you're going, it's so easy to get distracted and just go down places that you don't want to go, or you just end up throwing stuff up against a wall, seeing what sticks, but you don't know why it sticks or if it works. So I'm a huge planning person, but I totally agree with what you said. We got to be open and we have to adjust. And that's why I love 90 days because it's long enough to see whether you're starting to gain traction, but then you can evaluate what's working, what's not, and then make course corrections and adjustments for the next 90 days. If you don't have a strategy in place and a plan of how you're going to get there, you're just winging it.

Anthony Daniel Mini
I'd add on that to the importance of communication, right? So everyone's heard of eight minute abs. I try to do a eight minute video update to our strategy. So every month, put something out eight minutes just so that everyone will watch it. Anything longer than that, people tune out. But if you are adjusting things in those sprints, it is a fallacy to think that everyone's keeping up with how strategy is changing just because everyone's busy on the front lines doing the tackling and blocking of all the things that happen in a day. So you definitely got to take the time, communicate, hey, what has changed, what the new vision is. And that's the most important thing from a communication standpoint when you are being open to change.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. So knowing what you know now, is there anything you do differently?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Now, that's a tricky question. And I feel like it's a trap, Tim.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's not.

Anthony Daniel Mini
If you asked anyone on my team, they have a hundred things for me. But I think looking back, and this sounds arrogant, I really just can't say I would change anything. Only because the effort was there. And that's the most important thing for me. We talked about failing forward, made a plenty of mistakes, but we learned from them. And so from that aspect, I wouldn't change anything.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Anthony, it's been awesome. Honestly, my key takeaways are, man, I love the rose session. And I also love the fact that you touched on case studies and the importance of that and how that's helped you guys with your marketing, because I think that's a super low hanging fruit for most people. So thank you for taking the time to share your experience with us today. If people want to connect, where can they connect with you?

Anthony Daniel Mini
Sounds great. No, thanks, Tim. Appreciate it. And follow me on LinkedIn. Follow us on LinkedIn, pearltechnology.com. If you're in the Peoria area, central Illinois, we do host a lot of events. We actually have one coming up here in a couple of weeks on protecting senior citizens and cyber security. It's a free event hosted at the Peoria Riverfront Museum. But if you stay tuned, follow us on our website. We have a ton of free events coming up, and then track us on our socials, too, at pearltechnology.com.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I love it. So perltechnology. Com, connect with Anthony on LinkedIn. We'll I'll make sure that direct link goes in the show notes, but it's Anthony Mini, M-I-N-I. So go connect them from over there. Anthony, thank you, man. I appreciate the time. Those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you doing so. You can always connect with us if you need help or guidance on removing some of the marketing roadblocks that are in your way. You can do that over at rialtomarketing.com. The other tool we have for you is over at revenueroadblockscorecard.com. When we work with clients, we remove roadblocks in nine key areas of marketing. And if you want to know which of those nine are slowing down your growth, you can do it there at revenueroadblockscorecard.com. So thank you. Until next time. Take care. All right.


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About the author, Tim Fitzpatrick

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