Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that we can all learn from the shared experience.


Join Tim Fitzpatrick and Raffi Jamgotchian for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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Focus To Unlock Your Growth Potential

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that we can all learn from the shared experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have with me, Raffi Jamgotchian from Triada Networks. Raffi, welcome and thank you for taking the time.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Thanks, Tim. Excited to be here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I'm excited to dig into this. We're going to have a good conversation. Before we do that, I want to ask you just a few rapid fire questions. Help us get to know you a little bit. You ready to go?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Absolutely. Okay.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Very quickly, what do you do and how long have you been doing it?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Triada Networks is a cyber security and IT services firm focused on the financial services industry. We've been doing it for 14 years.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Damn, that was good, man. I tell people short, they're not always that short. You rocked that one. What's the most important lesson that you've learned in business?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Probably a lot. The most important lesson certainly would be trust your instincts. Go with it. Don't second guess yourself. Go full board.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Kind of reminds me of when I was in school, they always say, go with the first answer. Don't change it. Yeah. I usually found when I did change it, I was wrong. Raffi, we all know growing a business is hard. You've been doing this for 14 years. Do you have any mantra or saying that you tell yourself or share with your team to help push through those roadblocks when you come up against them?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Yeah. I mean, for the most part, I try to do this to myself. It's me psyching myself into it. If anything, it's what's the worst that could happen? At the end of the day, we're not creating oxygen here. We are protecting people's livelihoods. We are protecting businesses. It's important, but we're not creating oxygen. So if the worst thing that can happen, what would that be? And is that something that you're willing to live with?

Niching Into A Very Small Market

Tim Fitzpatrick
I like that. Is it oxygen? So you touched on this very briefly that you focus on the financial services industry. Pretty narrow niche. Tell me a little bit about how you made that decision.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Yeah, we prior to starting Triada in 2008, I was working at a mid tier investment firm running the IT infrastructure group and also some of the cyber security projects. I left there to helped a small investment firm start up in 2006. And then another investment firm was breaking out of that first firm that we all worked at, starting another fund. So now here we have two funds. They were interested in getting up and going. They didn't have the resources necessarily to hire a full time IT person. Even my employer at the time, that small company, really knew that I was going to be bored in about a year or so. So that show gave us an opportunity to help start our company going. So here we are. We start a new company. We had two companies that were both investment firms, a little bit different flavor of each. And then slowly we started gaining other investment firms. Funny enough, because I'm a little thick headed this way, it took me about three or four years to find, I was like, Maybe we should just market the financial firms. We were taking on... We collected some other clients along the way, some that are still with us today, but we really didn't change our messaging around being the people for investment firms until about three or four years in. And I think that's when the light bulb went off for us and said, All right, we're going to be the people might be that guy. New York is a competitive market. You can shake a stick and hit an IT company. So we need to find our ways to be different.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What do you think held you back? You joke that you were thick headed, but was there something in the back of your mind that held you back from actually making that jump?

Raffi Jamgotchian
It was absolutely a scarcity mindset. It was the I can't afford to turn business away. I need to say yes to everything. And that quickly changed our trajectory when we made that mental switch. And that's when our first real big growth phase started was when we made that mental shift and said, No, we're not going to say yes to everything. We're not going to say yes to every client. They have to be the right fit. Because ultimately, it's not only beneficial for us, but it's also beneficial for them. It's not beneficial. Here's a story. We picked up a couple of medical clients along the way. The big deal in our industry was the HIPAA regulations, forcing medical companies to do different things that they weren't really necessarily ready to do. And we thought that, hey, here's an opportunity for us to expand into the medical niche. And we realized that we could not support that company. We were doing them a disservice, too. We were over engineering things because we were used to doing it for investment firms. And then we weren't necessarily as in tuned to the nuances, particularly of the medical field. So picking that niche and really leaning into it really made a big difference for us.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to pull that out because you said that was when you made that choice, that's when your first real big growth trajectory started. And that's not coincidence. And I know for a fact that people that are watching and listening to this, so many people can relate to that scarcity mindset. It's a very common hurdle or roadblock where it's like, Gosh, if I niche, I'm going to be saying no to all this business. And what really ends up happening is the exact opposite because I can't remember where I heard this, but it's always stuck with me and it's specificity sells. When your message is specific to a very narrow target market, it resonates better. It engages them and that's what sells. Most of us do not need thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of clients.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Correct.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Nitching into a very small market, as long as you don't go too narrow, there's plenty of business there. A lot of people always ask, how's too narrow? One of the thresholds I always look for is, look, if there's a trade show around that niche, then it's big enough. If there's a meeting or an event, it's big enough. You were going to add to that, please.

Raffi Jamgotchian
No, I was going to say that, and even for us, our niche necessarily isn't just financial services. We actually go even deeper. We subnich that even more so because we're not working with banks. We certainly can, but that's not really what... We work with specifically alternative asset managers. It's a very narrow subclass of investment firms. And why? Because we can speak their language. And I think we all know what you were saying before, we all have a natural filter in our ears that passes through information that we're more receptive to. If you send a general message, it's like you're spraying rather than narrowing the hose. So you're less and less of it is getting to where you want it to go.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, and you touched on this, too, a little bit when you chose to jump into medical a little bit. A lot of similarities, a lot of crossover, but there are some nuances. And sometimes those little nuances just they change your process. They mess things up. It's like little kinks in the wheel. You can be so much more efficient when you narrow it down because you know exactly what to do each and every time.

Raffi Jamgotchian
And we found that we were making compromises where we didn't want to as a result because the appetite for risk was different in the medical field than in investments. And because we had a very strong risk oriented message with what we did, it didn't fit. And so when we try to then change to adapt to that category, it just didn't work. Could it be impossible? Again, we do have clients today that are not in investments, but it's because they were narrowly close enough in terms of risk appetite that we were able to accommodate. But 100 % of the time when we're talking to an investment firm... Investment terms are funny, though. They like, and I think maybe this is everybody, but they specifically, they like to hear that you work with companies just like them. Even when I talk to our clients about something that's not necessarily related to investments, a phone system or something else that a printer and like, Oh, well, what do the other guys use? That's the number one question. It's like, why does it matter if the private equity firm down the street uses the same phone system that you do. It's not relevant to your business in that way. But they want to know. That's important to them. And it's even more so with the people. When we talk to them about their issues and concerns, we're talking to them in their language. And we were talking to a prospect the other day. And it was interesting because they were being a little bit cagey about... Cagey, maybe not is the right word, but they were being reserved about what they did and how they did it. And when I started bringing up, I wouldn't say jargon, but at least terminology in the sense that I understood what they actually did completely changed the conversation. They totally opened up. And now we were talking peers rather than were just the other service company that is cleaning their office or doing something like that.


Tim Fitzpatrick
With messaging, it needs to be in their words, not ours. When you speak the jargon, it's in their words. All of a sudden, guard goes down, makes them feel a lot more comfortable. So yeah, so many benefits in niching and going narrow. I actually had a conversation with somebody a couple of weeks ago, and he said to me, he's like, Once we chose to focus, life became a lot easier. And I thought that was such a great way to put it because most people that go down this path, they may not realize it right in the beginning, but as they're down the path, they're like, Yeah, these things have become much simpler.

Scaling Without Expanding An Inhouse Team

Tim Fitzpatrick
One of the things that we talked about in the pre interview, Raffi, was about scaling and your ability to scale without expanding with your inhouse team. How have you done that? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Yeah. So when we had different seasons, I want to call it, of how we provided service to our clients. The way I initially looked at it was, and this is probably somewhat related to what I was hearing in our industry at the time was delegate out the things that you don't want to be necessarily known for. And one of the common things that happens with... And this is not a right or wrong answer. One thing that happens commonly in our industry is that we'll outsource a chunk of that customer service piece to an outside firm that is better equipped to handle the volume and flow of support issues, for example. We did that for many years, and as a result, we actually jumped around a lot between companies, finding the one that actually fit us the best. What ended up happening was that, not unsurprisingly, when we brought that back in house, because now that's not only is that a... Even though it may not be, I wouldn't say it's core to our business in the sense that we're providing IT services, but it's also our frontline connection to our customers. They're our first line eyes and ears. They hear things before, sometimes that I do. And the level of the service, especially in the financial services industry that they're looking for more white glove, we can't really do that with an outsource provider. And so that was one of the other phases of growth that we saw. So even though it potentially would have cost us more money, it actually didn't. We decided to go down that... Reluctantly, I did it too late, I think. I wish I had done it many, many years before that. But what that has done is it's elevated our service quality, it's elevated client happiness, and now we are not afraid to measure that. In the early days, we measured it. It wasn't until actually we started measuring client happiness that we realized that there was a piece here that people weren't happy with. They were happy with the level of service that I was providing them, but not necessarily the rest of my, quote unquote, team, and that being the team that we had outsourced to. And then it was very crucial that we either bring that in house or fundamentally change how that was going. And that was really we started building that. And what we realized was we thought we needed more people to service our client base than we did because of the amount of noise that we were seeing. Noise meaning support issues, tickets, that thing. And ultimately, what ended up happening is that we were able to reduce the noise, have a smaller team, and from that, provide a better class of service so that we were now able to compete against the bigger companies, provide them white glove service, and ultimately get them more satisfaction. The problem and the challenge then became not, can we provide that service? Is that could we show them that we can provide that service prior to the sale? That became our challenge now. I think that what helped us overcome that is really social proof is having interviews with our customers. We had a third party do that, as well as some other white papers and what have you that we put together that helped. And then ultimately, even if the ones that are unwilling to be, quote unquote, public about it, that they're willing to get on the phone with a prospect and say, we're been happy with the way that Triada has been supporting us over the past 4, 5, 10 years. So that's what made the difference from that. I always thought that social proof was one of these buzzwords that marketers used, but it really made a... It's nothing more than a testimonial. It's a referral in different clothing in a way. And that made the difference for us in many ways.

Tim Fitzpatrick
There's a couple of things I want to pull out here. Initially outsourcing customer service call center type duties made made sense for you to outsource, but you reached a point where it made sense to bring that in house. And what you actually found was that you didn't need nearly as many people as you initially thought. But the other thing that you shared that I think a lot of people overlook is it's that front line. So when you've outsourced that, guess what? They're not taking the time to communicate all this front line information back to you. But when it's in house, there's a lot of information that you're gleaning from those conversations that you can use to continually better and improve your business.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Yeah. And to draw the parallel to what our experience with marketing has been, we're not marketers. This isn't what we do. I'm not a marketer. It was my least favorite class when I was doing my MBA, Mark. My experience is very whatever was available to us. And so what do you do when you're not doing talking about it is, or you hire a company that is to go do it for you? The problem is, they know our niche, they might be marketers. Even if they're marketers for IT companies, they may not necessarily understand the nuances specifically of our targeted type of company. But to where you were alluding to on with the support stuff, you found the same thing. So you pay a company 6, 10, 12, 24 months to do some marketing for you. When it's done, you don't have anything. They owned that not only the material, but also in many ways, depending on how it was structured, the traffic. And it didn't elevate you in any way. Not saying don't hire a marketer. Hire a marketer. Hire a marketer firms to build things for you, but make sure that they're specifically for you and that you get to keep ownership because ultimately you're going to be able to continue to use that material over and over again. Our last website is a good example. Our current website, in the past, we had done some service. And then we website developed because we realized, again, it's one of those things that, hey, you can do it. You're not great at it, but you can do it. But let me jettison that part of the business so I can focus on other things. When we built our own websites, we hired these website companies that would build a templated website and host it for us. But then when you turn it off, it's gone. And then finally, when we decided that, Let's make something for us that we can keep and own and iterate on. And that's where we were today. I don't know if that's work. That might not be the best thing for everybody. And again, I'm not afraid to make investments in those services. But whenever I've not only outsourced the activity, but also outsourced the strategy, it's not worked for me. What's worked for us is to hold on to the strategy and then outsource the activity.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, the way I think of strategy is its fuel. So there's all kinds of marketing vehicles out there, but if we don't have the strategy behind it, the vehicles we're trying to use have no fuel. And that's where I live.

Raffi Jamgotchian
They have no fuel. They have no direction. They'll just off on their own. The way I think of it is it's really your map, your GPS. And if you don't without that, you're basically just throwing stuff out and it doesn't go away.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Haphazard marketing doesn't work very well.

Raffi Jamgotchian
I am a student of haphazard marketing.

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How to Ensure You're Spending Your Marketing Budget Wisely

Tim Fitzpatrick
So let's talk about that because I know one of the things that you mentioned was a concern for you from a marketing standpoint was just, are we spending enough? Are we putting it in the right places? And this is a really common concern for people. How have you worked past that? Or is that something that you still struggle with from time to time?

Raffi Jamgotchian
We still struggle with it. There were periods that we overspent, I think, in marketing. And you ask a marketer how much do we spend on marketing? And they'll say, How much can you spend on marketing? And then they'll bring out the common phrase. If you put a dollar into a machine and it spat out two dollars, how many times would you spit out put in a dollar as many times as you can. The problem is that we were putting a lot of dollars into that machine and there wasn't really anything coming out on the other end. And so at that point, when do you turn the machine off? And that happened to us over the over and over again. And that's where I become a little bit gun shy when it comes to certain kinds of processes around marketing. So we lean into what we were good at, and we're now leaning into more about that. And that's really how do we educate the market? How do we educate our immediate prospects? And that's something that I think one of the strengths I'm told I have is taking really complex things and making them simple to understand. And so if I can do that at a business level and show or demonstrate or teach the value of that thing, I think that helps ultimately more than put it together a pretty marketing slick or a specific email campaign or whatever. The thing is that they can work hand in hand each other. And back to the strategy, it needs to be somewhat strategic. So that's the direction that we've decided to go in. Like I said, we've put a lot of money into marketing, and then there were various periods of time we put very little into marketing. 2020, we spent a ton on marketing. 2021, not so much. '21, probably one of our best years ever. '22, part of one of our best years ever. But from a marketing spend point of view, not one of our greatest spend years. So does that mean that don't spend it? No. It just means that maybe we weren't spending in the right places and doing the right things.

Tim Fitzpatrick
When you were spending and not getting a great return, was it difficult to measure whether the ROI was there, or do you feel like you had good measurement and you knew that you weren't getting it?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Well, if there was a... The clear letter in ROI is the R. If there's no return, it's not hard to measure the return on investment because you know what the investment is, you know that the return is zero or near zero. So then what's the point? We got tied up in some... One thing that we found that marketers are really good at is marketing. Marketing to us, what we found out that many... And I'm talking in general sense with some of the marketing firms we work with, they're very good at marketing to us, but not necessarily helping us market to our prospects. So that return did not come to fruition. So what ended up coming to fruition for us is really looking back, all right, if we mapped all our clients to date, where did they come from? Every one of them came from some relationship related activity, whether it's a direct relationship with that person, a direct relationship from a customer that referred us, or a third party that referred us. All of those came from those relationships. So the way that you get more business is cultivating more relationships. And then how do you cultivate those relationships? You have to give something. And so that's what we've been doing. We've been trying to give and educate as much as we can, not only directly to prospects, but even to our competitors, where we help them out when we can help them out. We've e come that person, I guess, in that sense, because ultimately I think it's going to come back to you. You end up getting that. You'll get something that comes back. And it has. It's not infrequent that we're asked by somebody that you would think is competitive to us for assistance on doing one thing or another.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. You know, Raffi, you highlighted something that I think is super easy for people to miss here. You said we went back and looked at where all our clients came from, where was the lead source? It is such a simple question to ask, but one that so many people overlook. When we look at marketing, there's so many different metrics that don't mean a damn thing. I saw this the other day. I got an email from a marketing agency, a big one, with a quick case study email. And there were three stats in there about how they improved this company business. None of those translated to did they become leads and did they become clients? It looked impressive. Our website traffic went up 50 %, 50 %. Who cares? Did they become leads that became clients? That's what you touched on there that I think is so important.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Right on the nose, Tim.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do they become clients? Where did they come from? It can be as simple as just asking, is it foolproof? No, it's not foolproof. But if you're not even asking right now, it's way better than the information you currently have. When you understand where the leads are coming from, now you're starting to determine, Okay, which activities are actually generating leads? And for you, you've determined that a lot of it was very relationship based.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Which is pretty common in our circles and when you're dealing with something that is a complex sell, it has to be. We're not a transactional business, so it's very much so. To your point, we hired a fairly well known SEO company in 2020. That was one of our big spends. And like you said, they were really great at increasing our traffic, probably 10 X traffic to our website. It did not turn to any conversions to the point where actually one of their guarantees kicked in whether it would work for free for a period of time because we did not get any conversions. And look, ultimately, it ended up costing us money because we ended up having to trash and redo the website because of all the everything that they had done to mess it up, unfortunately. And it's terrible because I'm sure there are plenty of people that are in that business that do a really good job, whether it's SEO or whether it's other parts of full blown marketing agencies or marketing consultants. I'm sure there are plenty that do a really good job. It's unfortunate that this over promising takes place. I guess if they were more confident in their ability to deliver beyond this guarantee, which is maybe one step towards that, is really maybe more outcome based rather than activity based. And that's difficult to ask somebody to do because they know they're stepping into a black hole or black box in some way without anything to know about it. So it's tough. Marketing is one of these things where, especially for a techy guy like I, I will lean on to try to automate and dump tech into technology. And that's probably my first instinct is to lean into that rather than to necessarily the building of the relationships. I just found that now it's something that's more suited to me that there are certain ways that I can build those relationships that are within my wheelhouse that are different than, say, going out and shaking hands, which is maybe traditionally what people would think of.

Tim Fitzpatrick
There's a few learning lessons I want to pull out here because you're not alone. The fact is, most marketing we do does not work. It's all about testing. You got to put stuff out there, you test, you measure, you learn from it, and you just continue to iterate. But there's so many moving pieces with a lot of marketing. In the SEO example, where was the issue? They were driving traffic back to the site. Was it the website? Was the messaging bad? Was there not a good call to action? In there? Were they attracting the wrong traffic? They can increase traffic, but if it's not alternative asset managers, that's not going to be a good fit for you. There's so many different moving pieces there and it's really frustrating for business owners because you're like, Gosh, why is this not working? And we've got to look at those.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Those are the harder ones to figure out what the ROI is because you don't know exactly.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, you don't. Now, you can start to track, right? Okay, we have increased traffic, the traffic that's coming, where are they going? Are they converting? We can start to break that stuff down, but a lot of moving pieces there and it can be really difficult.

Navigating the Challenges of Narrowing Your Audience

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to shift gears a little bit because we've touched on this a little bit with messaging. Messaging is so, so important and creating a clear, specific, engaging message for your audience is critical. And you've gone really, really narrow with financial services and specifically alternative asset managers. Do you find has that helped you create your message, or is that something that's still a challenge for you?

Raffi Jamgotchian
We still iterate on it. It's not something that we've set up and sat with where we look at what they're doing as the company, and we try to align us to that. You think about an investment company, what are they doing? They're trying to help an end person or fund or high net worth individual protect their financial resources and put things in place to help it grow. And we're looking to do the same thing on there when it comes to their technology and their data. So we try to align the language together where you're protecting your client's wealth, we're protecting your technology to do that. We're helping you maintain regulatory compliance so that the bad guys at the SEC don't come knocking on your door asking you to open up your books. And when they do, we're there to help you sit there on your side of the table as part of your team to help identify what you need to do. So that's been our approach in terms of our messaging. We tweak it all the time. I'm a fan of that iterative process. Kind of like two thing, probably the two business books that have influenced how we approach things. Previously was Dan Miller's StoryBrand simplifying your message. And so we look at that as a way, it's like, how can I simplify the message of what we do? And what does that look like so that we can help you do what you need to do? And that's our approach to that. And then on the content side, it was something else. But primarily, that's been really how we try to hone our messaging around what we do.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. StoryBrand has done a really good job of keeping it simple. I think as business owners, it's difficult to think objectively about our business, and we overcomplicate things. You touched on that, that one of your skills is just making the complex easy to understand. When you're selling IT services, most people you're talking to are not technical. So we've got to be... If it's going to resonate with them, we got to break it down into its simplest form. And StoryBrand has done a really good job with that. And the other thing you touched on there was it's an iterative process. When we focus on marketing strategy, so many people think, Oh, my gosh. I'm putting this strategy in place and that's it. The concrete has been laid. No, our businesses are evolving. Our strategy is going to evolve over time. But we have to make strategic choices based on where we are at that point and where we want to go at that point, knowing that it is going to change. Whether there's really clearly delineated changes that happen that are going to dictate whether we need to adjust our strategy or not, it's still something that we recommend people look at every 9 to 12 months at a minimum just to see, Hey, is this still the right approach? And you make those adjustments, it's okay to change. The other thing that I find is super helpful is interviewing clients. Find your ideal clients, the ones you love working with that are profitable, that you get great results for. Go interview those people and talk to them. Why did they work with you? What did they love about working with you? What problem have you solved for them? What's the end result? And you'll hear in their words, right? And there is gold every time we have... Every time we do that for clients or clients go through the process.

Raffi Jamgotchian
I was going to touch on that just to add to that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, please do.

Raffi Jamgotchian
I would almost recommend that you don't do it yourself. Hire somebody else to do it for you. Clients open up in a completely different way when you're not sitting in the room and you're not the one answering the questions. One, it's super awkward, right? Me being a socially awkward guy, it doesn't behoove me to ask them, Hey, how great am I? Thing. I think it's more helpful. I think the person can ask questions in a way that doesn't sound like you're saying, Hey, tell me how... What are we doing that's great? You know what you're doing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Raffi Jamgotchian
I know what I do, but you know what I'm doing. So I like the idea of bringing somebody else in to do that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Thank you for for bringing that up because I'm biased in that regard. But yes, guard is down. The other thing, too, if you're not used to interviewing clients, sometimes it's easier to gloss over questions. So you ask a question, they give you an answer, but it's a surface level answer. Why do you love working with us? Well, you have great customer service. Who cares? Everybody says they have great customer service. We need to dig deeper. It's like, Well, can you give me an example of when we gave you great customer service? So when you have somebody else do it for you that's used to doing it, typically they get another layer or two of information that's really important.

Raffi Jamgotchian
Yeah, agreed.

In Conclusion: Focus To Unlock Your Growth Potential

Tim Fitzpatrick
Raffi, this has been awesome, man. And thank you for taking the time to do this. I want to ask you a couple of last minute questions before we wrap things up. The first one is, you've been doing this for 14 years, knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would do differently?

Raffi Jamgotchian
Yes, a lot. I think. I look back at... It's funny, I talk to... When I started this company, I was in my late 30s. I probably... Could I have started sooner? Probably. Is that a regret of mine? Kind of. But I think I came into it at the right time for us in many ways. Should I have hired people sooner rather than relying on outsource companies to provide our frontline support? Yes. Should have done that differently. I think what ended up happening for what I would probably do differently now, looking back, we chased a lot of shiny pennies and shiny objects along the way. And I think that lack of focus held us back. And we probably would have been a more profitable, larger company today than we'd otherwise would have been. One thing that we went one thing that I'm trying to be a better student of today is following the process that works and sticking to it. And that is something that is more of a recent thing, especially when it comes to sales. So one thing we... Sales is always something that I want, primarily because maybe that's why we have so many that are more relationship driven than not, is because we would have that rapport with people. But the problem ends up being is that you end up potentially skipping steps along the way. And you alluded to it a little bit in what you said earlier. If you make sure that when you're talking about questioning or overlooking something, but when you do that in your sales process, potentially you're sabotaging yourself. And that's something that I would have wish I had started doing that much earlier in our business life. And that would have been something that I think would have impacted us in a more positive way. But quite frankly, when it comes down to this stuff, the way my general philosophy on this is that having regrets doesn't really help you at all. It's understanding and making adjustments along the way that is going to make you better, a better person. I believe that you're where you're supposed to be, where you are, and things are put in place in a way that you are able to consume them and take them on in the appropriate manner. I believe that's how things were laid out for us.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it reminds me, I can't remember the exact how it's put, but it's like your journey is what it is. And it's brought you to this place. And right now, you are at the right place.

Raffi Jamgotchian
There's some stoic philosophy here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's something like that. As you were talking, it was coming into my head. So fantastic advice, Raffi. Where can people learn more about you?

Raffi Jamgotchian
You can reach us out on our website, triadanet.com. I'm there. I'm on LinkedIn. Look me up. I'm one of two, probably, Raffi Jamgotchians in LinkedIn that you can find. The other one's a jeweler in the Middle East.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, you should be easy to find on LinkedIn. So we'll make sure all that stuff is in the show notes. Raffi, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. This has been a great interview. For those of you that are watching, listening, thank you for doing so. I have been talking all about growth, revenue acceleration with Raffi today. If you want to know which roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can find that out over revenueroadblockscorecard.com. In less than five minutes, we'll assess you on the nine revenue roadblocks that we help clients remove, and you'll get actionable insights that you can start working on today. You can also connect with us over on our website at rialtomarketing.com. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, take care.


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About the author, Tim Fitzpatrick

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