Fueling Growth By Focusing On One Step At A Time

Fueling Growth By Focusing On One Step At A Time

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven-figure B2B business owners and their growth-focused executives who are actively trying to grow their businesses and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thanks for tuning in today. I am super excited to have Michelle Tinsley from Scaita with me today. Michelle, welcome. Thanks for taking the time.

Michelle Tinsley
Thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's awesome. I'm excited to dig into this with you today. Before we jump into the heart of the interview, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions if you're ready to jump in with both feet.

Michelle Tinsley
Yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. So very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Michelle Tinsley
So I'm the CEO at Scaita. We're a digital transformation company, and I've been doing that for about 10 months. And prior to that, I was in the world of startups, and before that, corporate America. So I've had lots of different experiences.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I was going to say you've been all over, right? Based on where you've been, what do you prefer most?

Michelle Tinsley
I'm currently enjoying role because it does feel like a Goldilocks in the middle. It's thinking big and strategy of corporate America, but the entrepreneurialism of the startup land. And yet it's a much bigger suite of business and revenue and PnL. And so it's a lot more complex and it's a lot of fun. I'm learning a lot.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I Love it. What's the most important lesson you've learned in your professional experience?

Michelle Tinsley
It's to learn that failure is something to learn from, and it's not to be ashamed. It's just, again, let's take what we can learn from that. And every human being has failures. So trying to be perfect is just nonsense. And so how do you just learn to be resilient and take it as a gift that you've got learnings and things to learn from that opportunity and move on.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. I know. I'm sure in your career, there's been ups, there's downs. We've all been through them. Do you have any mantra that you say to yourself or share with your team to push through those challenging times?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah. I look at it and just say one step at a time. Even when I do workouts, I'm like, okay, let me look at every 10 % chunk. If it's a 45 minute workout, every four and a half minutes, I'm like, Yay, another. I'm at 20 %, 30 %. So it work every day when it seems like the to-do list is too long, it's like, okay, let's just focus on getting one or two good things done today, and the rest will get tackled tomorrow.

One Step At A Time

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. One of my mentors said, focus on the next measurable step. And that's always stuck with me because It can be overwhelming, right? If you look at the whole overarching umbrella of all these things that we need to do, but what's the next little thing I can do that's going to get me one step closer? So I love that. One of the things you've shared with me in the pre-interview was that Scaita has got some bold growth goals. You look into 25X revenue in the next four years. What are some of the key growth strategies you're prioritizing to make that happen I know you're looking both organically and through mergers and acquisitions, but can you talk us through that a little bit?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah. So the initial focus is organic because that's what we can control. And there's really two prongs to that. One is account management. Go love on our existing clients. Sadly, not 100% of their experiences in the last few years have been positive. And so how do we overcome that? How do we hear the feedback, make improvements and changes that delight them? Because we want to get further business and expand on our footprint with those existing clients. The second thing, and then is, and we've dedicated these to different people so they can really get focused, is new account growth, new logos. Having somebody just be a specialist in going and doing the hunting, going to who's our ideal customer persona, down to the types of job titles they have, get meetings with those people, understand their pain points, understand their challenges, how do we then come in with a solution that will make their life easier, and then get really good at onboarding new clients. Because where we may have only done a few a year in the past and you could hand roll it, now we've got to be ready to do this 100 times a year or more. Then longer term, it's like, Okay, then we need to be stepping it up with... I go, Those are all great base heads, but channel partnerships. That's now where we're going to start getting a lot of volume. Then obviously, the other layer that has been more of a focus area for myself and the private equity owner is the inorganic growth. As we acquire other companies, They're experts at what they're doing. They are already a great company, a great book of business, or we wouldn't be acquiring them. So how do we incorporate all their learnings into what we're doing and continue to improve on that organic sales engine?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love that. One of the things that I always look at when we start to work with clients is, where are the opportunities with the existing clients? It's such low hanging fruit. So I really appreciate you for bringing that up because it's It's a heck of a lot cheaper to do more business with the clients we already have than to go out and search for new ones. And you guys are taking that multi-pronged approach. Where are the opportunities that already exist within the business? And then how are we going to go out and attract more business. That new account growth, I see multiple approaches here. One is people just taking a very cold approach It's just hitting a lot of different people to find that, depending on who you talk to, the 3% of the market that's looking to buy, and others that are taking more of an account-based management approach. Let's connect with our ideal clients. Let's start building relationships with them and get to know them so that they're thinking about us when needs arise that we can support them with. How are you approaching that?

Michelle Tinsley
We're much more the latter because, again, we're doing transformative, disruptive software that's going to hopefully change the trajectory of our clients to be much more effective and productive. Well, they're not going to do that based on a great email campaign. I mean, you could write a wonderful email campaign, but they're not going to risk the crown jewels of their company to work with some random unheard of company through an email campaign. So this is about building those relationships. I call it making deposits into those bank accounts to say, how can I help them? Some of these leaders members of digital transformation want to serve on boards. So I bring, okay, I have served on boards, and let me share my journey. Let me connect you to some organizations where you're going to start to be able to progress that goal that you have. But also let me hear what challenges you have. And now that I've met with 10, 15, 20 digital transformation leaders, do we build a networking group where we get these folks together occasionally because they're all in different industries. They don't compete with each other, but they can share and they probably know, okay, I'm seeing around corners. I know what you're going to into next. It's really doing those things because that's what will get us to stand out. Then sharing with them, too. Hey, we've had some marquee wins where there's a top five consultancy firm out there, and we just won the deal over them because we're getting in there and producing results quickly with a little two month proof of concept. We're not walking in charging millions from day one. And so that's getting us in there, executing with the client, building trust with them. They see what we're achieving, and they see us through our activity. And that's far better than, again, handing over a giant proposal PowerPoint deck and then asking for millions of dollars.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you guys are leading with a very short term project in most cases.

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah. We're calling them proof of concepts, where we say, what is that use case that you think is important and meaningful and can drive an ROI but is not the crown jewels? You don't want to walk up your first time in Little League at bat and assume that you're going to hit a grand slam. I mean, that just would be a bit naive. And so saying, what is a meaningful base hit that we can get with you? What data can we prove? A very explicit, clear use case. And if that works and we start generating quickly that ROI for you, how can we then turn it around and start doing more with you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. How long have you guys been offering that proof of concept?

Michelle Tinsley
For many years. It's just more we're now being very focused on, again, more that Fortune 1000 client base, whereas I think in the past, US, they were looking at just, Hey, we'll work with startups, work with mid-market, any customer that comes our way. And by not being very focused, they then didn't get a lot of new account growth. They were just getting repeat business with their current customers.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I would see, too, especially when you're looking at Fortune 1,000 companies where decision making can take a long time. I see this proof of concept offer. It's almost try before you buy, right? A very low barrier to entry. It's not a huge dollar amount for them. But like you said, you help them get quick wins. They know what it's now like to work with Scaita. And then it's like, okay, what else can we help you with?

Michelle Tinsley
Exactly.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love that.

Michelle Tinsley
And also sometimes see how quickly we can put together a team. We had one where we were quoting it, and within two weeks, we have the team fully staffed because we have a unique sourcing engine with 47,000 people in that database. So we're ready to tap into and get very hyper-specific about the type of roles we're trying to fill.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Cool. I want to take one step back on the account-based management approach. As the CEO, what's your time frame? How large of a window are you looking at this tactic before it starts to produce results? What are your thoughts on that?

Michelle Tinsley
I usually use the rule of thumb of three months to really get in there and get a solid meeting, and maybe six to start getting a deal in the pipeline. Because, sadly, again, as you know, corporate America doesn't move super quick. And that's why, again, I go, we will still do work with mid-cap, smaller firms, because that'll fill in the gaps. As we did our budget this year, our Q1 growth was from existing accounts. Now, Q2, that's where we're signed for new business from new names. And so I look at that and go, that gives us enough of a runway to be both realistic but challenged because you want to have your salespeople striving to do their best and not have it feel like, oh, it's a cakewalk to earn my commission. But I look at it and go, let's be cutting away at it. And again, if we start exceeding our goals, amazing. Awesome. Let's always just say, let's lean on on that and again, learn and start stitching together the same issues or challenges we're hearing from our client base.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. And are they... Are your salespeople always in those initial conversations? Are they always looking for that opportunity? Where's the proof of concept opportunity?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah. Again, a lot of it is use case-driven, and/or what are your pain points? What are the things that keep you up at night? Or just you never have time to get to, but they're a real annoyance. Because again, we want to do something significant enough that the ROI from this project isn't like a rounding air where they're like, well, that was cute and interesting, but it barely paid for itself. So let's go do something that's going to move the needle enough that they're going to want to come back for a second bite of the apple.

Investing in Marketing Automation and CRM Implementation

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. I know one of the things you had mentioned is that you guys have been investing in marketing automation and CRM implementation. How's that going? I mean, how is it impacting sales and marketing efforts so far?

Michelle Tinsley
I would say we've moved from crawl to walk. So again, the first bit was just standing up our pipelines and really figuring out what are the appropriate stages. We have two types of work we do. We do both consulting projects and we do staff augmentation. And so we have different pipelines for those because the steps in the pipeline are different. On staff aug, our clients are actually interviewing the people to be hired. In consulting, we put the team together and they show up on site. Those phases and % yields are different. We had to set all that up and set up the reporting. Simple automations like calendar links and being able to link to our website, that was phase one. Now what we're getting into is more running sequences, looking at our ideal customer profile, Seeing if somebody that's in that ICP visits our website, getting again a hot lead for our salesperson to go follow up. We started doing quarterly newsletters with three stakeholder groups. One is people who already work for us but are not currently on any of our We call those our alumni. Then with our current workers. Then the third one is with our prospects or clients. The messaging and stories are different in each of those, but it's driving that regular cadence of thought leadership. We're now two quarters in on that. Just start seeing we're getting better clicks, we're getting higher readers rates. We want to make sure that we're not spamming them, but putting out enough content that is meaningful that they want to read it when it shows up on their inbox. But for our sales perspective, they can then see, Okay, who's engaging with this? And sounds like that might be time to set up a coffee or a lunch or a Zoom call to hear how's their business going and where might we be able to help them?

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're sending out three separate newsletters catered to each specific audience that you're dealing with.

Michelle Tinsley
Yes. So the example was this last quarter one for the current workers was, why do you need to log your weekly hours? And it's because we need to see a real burn rate on our consulting projects to know, okay, we're four weeks into the project of an eight-week project. Are we halfway through the hours consumed? Or is somebody overzealous in working too many hours and we need to slow the roll there or manage where we're at. We don't want to find out in week eight of the project at closure that, whoops, we overran 20 hours. And so trying to explain to them that we have more a real-time pulse of how the business is working if we get that 52 pulse points a year versus waiting to project ends or halfway through a project to go collect that information. Whereas it's like, again, our customers and prospects wouldn't care about that. Our alumni, it was more about our referral program and what skills we see as being most asked for by our client base. So if somebody wants to go upskill or take some trainings, they know, okay, this is where the industry is headed.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I really like that. And I think there are plenty of businesses that are overlooking that. By segmenting the audience, you're able to send a much more relevant message, which is going to lead to better engagement over time.

Michelle Tinsley
And some people would say, oh, just focus on the customer and the prospect, the paying customer, I go. But the problem with that is it's our workers who are the quality for us. So if we don't nurture them and bring them along with our vision of where we're headed, there could be some very big misalignment, they could be like, this is just a job. I'm just punching a clock. I just got to get this software written, and then I'm out of here. And unfortunately, that's not going to be great quality for our paying clients. So I need to get them enlisted in our vision of where we're headed as well and see why it's good for them to do that.

Using AI to Drive Growth

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Yeah. Super, super important. I know one of the other things that you mentioned with marketing is just the challenge of generating quality leads, increased deal flow, especially as companies express more interest in AI, but they're hesitant to take action. How are you tackling that?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah, I think some of this is, again, really asking them what's your budget, what's your timeline, who's the decision makers, so really getting that buying criteria understood. And then also trying to just peel the onion on, so what's the urgency behind AI? Where is this coming from? Sometimes they admit it. Our board or our CEO, our C-suite is asking us to jump in and do AI. It's like, well, have they thought through? Is there a specific area of the company they want to try it on for size first? Ai can mean so many things. It's been around for 20 years and predictive modeling and large data sets. And so do they mean more the traditional AI? Do they mean real-time decision-making with Edge AI? Or are they talking more generative AI? And so really trying to understand what is that use case and what are they looking for? Because that will then discover what data sets are needed. And a lot of times, I'd say nine times out of 10, their data is not ready. And so they do need to make a little bit of an investment on cleaning up and organizing the data so that it's ready for AI.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So that's the data that you guys would use to feed the AI?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah. I say data, but it could be things like, okay, with generative AI, you're loading files. Okay, well, do you know which files? And again, when it comes to data governance, do you know what information is in those files and may need to be protected. And so thinking through what if you're a super tiny company, you may just be using the open public models in the sky, which are fine for generating social media content or a new marketing piece. But if you're talking, oh, recommend me a scope of work, generate that first cut proposal for my next client, I'm going to load up the last five client proposals. You probably don't want those loaded to the public cloud because now you're training the whole universe out there, but also it could get discovered somehow, and it's usually under an NDA. And so you don't want to be feeding confidential information into the public models

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. I would And we also see, too, that the activity that you're doing with your CRM is going to help that lead quality and deal flow pipeline, because you're actually going to have the data that you need to determine who do we spend more time focusing on.

Michelle Tinsley
Exactly. And with our CRM, we can see they were on your website for this long, and these are the three to five pages they looked on, and how long did they stay on each of those pages? And so it's really getting some great insights into, okay, what part of the website were they looking at? Were they looking at case studies. And again, we know as we've just started adding, we put a blog out in Q4, start adding more to that blog content, more to case studies to download. We will get a little bit of that, collect the information and permissions to follow up with them. If you want to download a case study, then we want the right to follow up and do a Zoom call and see what challenge you're looking to solve.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Are you guys using... What tools are you using for that?

Michelle Tinsley
We're using HubSpot for our CRM.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And are you using HubSpot for your website, too?

Michelle Tinsley
Just little pieces right now. We're on Webflow, which is not super easy. And so over time, but again, as we do M&A, we're like, this is a conundrum of, I don't want to go spend six figures on my website and then find out in six months, oh, the website shifted to something else that we acquired, and now all that money is gone and had a short life to it. So we're taking it a step at a time just to figure out that as we do our M&A activity that we're not overspending on some things.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, that's cool. And just for those that are watching and listening, I don't necessarily recommend one tool over another, but to me, it's the tool that makes sense to you and the one that you actually use and implement is the one that is probably the best to use. But certainly HubSpot is a very popular platform. And the more of their tools that you're using, the more relevant data you get because their systems really tie well together. And so there's a lot of things that you can track, but it can also get very expensive very quickly. So , anyways, that's cool. As you were talking, I'm like, I bet they're using HubSpot. So one of the other things you mentioned in the pre-interview was talking about we got to drink our own champagne by using AI and automation internally. Can you share some additional examples of how Sciata is leveraging that?

Michelle Tinsley
Absolutely said. Yeah. When I came in, we were doing payroll on six spreadsheets, and I was like, oh, my gosh. So we're stepping away from what I call SOS, a blank load of spreadsheets, and basically moving into standard systems, and then we're tying those systems together. The first big step was our HRIS. We went with Rippling for that, and it's tying into our operational system, which is JobDiva. Through an API, we're getting real-time updates. What that allows us to do is, whether someone's a W2 worker or 1099, it doesn't matter. We're seeing in our operational database the full teams on the project, how many hours were worked, as we said, weekly. Now we have pure visibility to that, but it's also got nice little reminders and triggers Like, Hey, these 1099 client companies we work with, we need to have their updated C UI. It'll auto-remind them. And again, anywhere we can, we're automating this process. Now what we're working on is more the financial side. How do we tie our financial systems to JobDiva so that things like our invoicing of clients monthly is auto put together and again reviewed by a human but then sent out. Can we further automate our monthly closed process from a financial standpoint? Right now we're doing 23 manual reconciliations. I'm like, We probably don't need that many. We're not that big of a company. Whether it's robotic process automation or we have a new financial analyst who's just amazing, and he's starting to create some power BI tools for us. So again, regardless of what system we can start building our executive dashboard and really see in one-stop shop, I call it our executive cockpit to see how are we doing. There's operational metrics, HR metrics, cash flow metrics, and and see that all in one place, which is great.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're gaining access to data and metrics that you didn't have access to before.

Michelle Tinsley
Exactly. And then on the AI front, we're looking from our sourcing engine. I said earlier, it has 47,000 people in it, but there's always room for more. And there's always occasionally this particular location, this skillset right now, we don't have anybody already in the database. So how do we go get new ones? There are some interesting AI tools in the world of recruiting that we can tap into that are allowing us to go, and it goes beyond the Boolean search, which is what LinkedIn and everything else is based on. So we do find that we're uncovering new names and new clients and new personas that we haven't found before. So that's one of our earlier uses. And then, of course, like any company with marketing collaterals and some of the lighter tech work, we're using generative AI on that. 

Aligning Sales, Marketing, and Leadership

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. So you get a lot of experience. Looking back at your leadership journey, especially stepping into a CEO role, and you're midstream with this company. What's been the biggest lesson you've learned about aligning sales, marketing, and leadership or growth?

Michelle Tinsley
I think it's just a real hyper focus for me on my time because there's no shortage of things I could be doing at any given point in day and time or double, triple booking. And so really figuring out what of this do I personally need to do and what of this could be a learning exercise, a stretch thing for one of my staff to go do. If I start thinking, oh, they're too busy. Well, maybe they could be pushing stuff onto somebody else on their teams. So really looking at either just saying, Okay, do we just delete that action item because now priorities have changed. Do I delegate it or do I do it myself? Really being judicious about that because time is something you just fabricate, whereas all these other resources we can usually get more of.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. One of the other things, too, that I noticed in some of the things that you shared is that, especially when we talked about, Hey, how are you going to 25X? You You can have a laundry list of a gazillion things that you're focusing on right now. You know what the priorities are. There's not a ton of them. That's the focus right now. And once that's done, then you can move on to the next thing. But we got to choose what our priorities are and then focus on those, and let everything else just go.

Michelle Tinsley
Absolutely. Yeah, we set our strategy last July as a team, and what I love is every month we do an update, and this Thursday is our update. And so our analogy is we're going from Phoenix, Arizona to New York City, and I've broken it into 48 months or chunks. And so that's about 50 miles-ish each month. And so we this month are hitting Tukumkari, New Mexico. I've got a little generative AI picture of a bunch of coworkers in a van, and a picture of what Tukumkari looks like. And it's like, okay, what have we learned over the last month? What have we accomplished? Where are we on track or ahead of ourselves on our goals? Where are we behind? How do we get a team tackle? Maybe some of the things we're behind on, it's okay. It's fine to be behind and we're just going to move on. Some of these are around due diligence and building a pipeline on M&A where you're like, Okay, we're now deep into the throes of one potential deal. I can't both do that well and be lead genning on a new M&A pipeline, so I'm at peace. I'm going to just go put that on a back burner. And so really, again, having that reset moment, but also giving the team a sense of accomplishment. I say, I hike and I look backwards every now and then to see, okay, wow, look how high up we've gotten. You sometimes forget to stand and look back and acknowledge the great work that we've done so far.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How far out are you planning? You gave this analogy, we're going from Phoenix to New York. Do you know all the things that you believe you need to do to get to New York, or are you looking more at, Our next goal is New Mexico, and these are the things that we're going to do to get there. And then you evaluate once you're at New Mexico. Is that how you plan?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah, we're hyper-focused on the next quarter, or then as we get into it, that quarter. And that's within the context of five strategies or swim lanes. I don't think those five strategies or swim lanes will change at all in the next four years because their growth, their operations, our center of excellence, which is our investment in our systems and our people. Then lastly, our financial engine of building the funding highway. Those five are never going to change. Now, the what we're doing each quarter absolutely will. Again, that's where we're seeing, Oh, wow, happy moment. We're ahead of things on this one. Oh, this one, we ran into headwinds and we didn't expect that. We're joking that we may get into a state where we hit a pothole or detour and there's these unexpected things that life just throws in your way. We'll have to figure that out at the time. But certainly it's one of these where we can course-correct. If you try to think too far ahead, it just becomes fiction. We're like, let's really focus on this quarter strategy. What we're going to do is, in the first week of April, set the concrete goals for Q2. But I said, each of you as a swim lane owner needs to be looking at Q4 of this year and saying, now by the end of this current quarter of Q2, I will be halfway through the year. Am I really on track to hit that Q4? Or if I'm intellectually honest, am I planning to be behind? Therefore, what do I need to do to be aggressive in Q2? Because then at least get Q3 and Q4 to catch up.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So you have an idea of where the long term is, but you're not laying everything out.

Michelle Tinsley
Correct.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Thank you for sharing that. The reason I asked is because I certainly have my own opinions about it, especially when it comes to marketing, where we only plan a 90 day sprints. That's it. Because anything else is just a waste of time, and it adds too much complexity, and it changes in 90 days anyway. So why at least the time?

Michelle Tinsley
Yeah, you're going to learn a lot.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Exactly.

Michelle Tinsley
And that's going to shape how you forecast the next quarter. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. And you're going to iterate. I think there's nothing wrong. You need to know where the long term objective is You need to have an idea, I think, of some of the things, some of the tactics, some of the channels that may help you get there, but you don't need to plan everything out. It's just what are the priorities that we're going to tackle right now for the next 90? And I hope to eliminate all this It's scratching and overwhelm.

Michelle Tinsley
When we look to go do this again in July, we may have new people at the table because we've completed our acquisition. So I go, I want to make sure that they're getting a chance to write down some of the goals and help us get to the end of the year goals. And those end of the year goals absolutely will need to be modified because we could be twice the size of a company because of the M&A.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. It's fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing that. I want to ask you one last question before we wrap up, which is, knowing what you know now, is there anything you do differently?

Michelle Tinsley
I think it's continue to be patient with myself. I think sometimes I have very high expectations, and I get really frustrated and impatient with myself to where the internal coach in my head is negative or very hard on myself. And so it's like, give yourself some grace, give yourself some patience, take a deep breath, and really hopefully enjoy the moment, hopefully enjoy the journey we're on. Because again, if I learn through this, it just makes me a better leader for the future.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Michelle, thank you for taking the time. If people want to connect, where can they learn more about you?

Michelle Tinsley
Definitely on LinkedIn. I'm super active on LinkedIn, as well as our site the website.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. So we'll make sure that those go in the show notes. But Sciata is sciata.com. And then Michelle Tinsley. I don't know how many Michelle Tinsley's there are out But.

Michelle Tinsley
I grabbed the pure one very early on on LinkedIn, so they all have to put a number after their name.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, exactly, because I was like, Hey, it's Michelle Tinsley on LinkedIn. So you were early or there aren't that many.

Michelle Tinsley
I was early. I was 1997.

Tim Fitzpatrick
There you go. Oh, God. I don't think I was too far behind you. So awesome. Well, Michelle, thank you so much. Guys, please go connect with Michelle. It's been a pleasure connecting with you. Those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you doing that. If you want to connect with us, you can do that over at rialtomarketing.com. The other resource we've got for you is over at RevenueRoadblockScorecard.com. We help clients build their marketing engine. We focus on nine key areas. If you want to know which of those nine areas are slowing down your growth, that's where you can do it. So take advantage of it. And until next time, take care.