How To Achieve Organic Visibility With SEO

How To Achieve Organic Visibility With SEO

Tim Fitzpatrick

Every business wants their website to be more visible in search results, but figuring out how to do this is easier said than done. That is why I've got an SEO expert with me today to help demystify organic visibility and how you can boost the visibility of your website. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing where we believe you must remove of your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate revenue growth. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have with me Jason Pittock from Jason Pittock Media LLC. Jason, thanks for joining me man.

Jason Pittock
Thank you. Thanks Tim. Thanks for the introduction.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. I'm excited to dig into this with you today. SEO is always a hot topic for most businesses, but before we do that, I want to ask you some rapid fire questions. Are you ready to jump in with both feet here?

Jason Pittock
I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
All right. When you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

Jason Pittock
Surfing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Surfing, okay, nice. How long have you been surfing?

Jason Pittock
Since I was maybe like 12 12 or 13.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So long. Long time.

Jason Pittock
Long time. More than a decade.

Tim Fitzpatrick
All right. All right. Every time I think of surfing, I think of one of my favorite movies, which is the original Point Break. Did you ever see that?

Jason Pittock
Yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I always tell people, don't fault me that that's one of my favorite movies. But man, I grew up in the 80s and 90s Patrick Swayze and Keanu Reeves were yeah, were it.

Jason Pittock
Yeah, they were legit.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's your hidden talent?

Jason Pittock
That no one knows? Probably cooking. I like grilling and I actually have a grilling, grilling vlog like a grilling YouTube channel. I do like grilling and cooking, so I have a really big kitchen with all the different appliances and obviously all the scallery needs. I love cooking.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, so you're a foodie.

Jason Pittock
I am, unfortunately.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I'm going to have to make my way down to Argentina then.

Jason Pittock
You will.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Jason Pittock
Build relationships, not businesses.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's a good one. I like that. What's one thing about you that surprises people?

Jason Pittock
I think people expect me to be an extrovert or be very confident in public or when I'm in a big group or meeting new people and I'm actually not, I'm actually super nervous. And you always struggle kind of the anxiety of meeting new people and kind of no, I'm not comfortable with big crowds. People think I would be just because I come across, but I'm not at all. I'm more of a one on one small group.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You know what's interesting? A lot of people that come across that publicly speak or out there in the public, there's a lot of people that we see like that, that we think are extroverts and.

Jason Pittock
They've been working on that for years.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You just find ways to just push through it and get outside your comfort zone. What does success mean to you?

Jason Pittock
I think having the balance, defining the balance, number one, and then living a balance, being able to not be consumed by whatever you're doing that gives value and also pays the bills. But I think living the balance, being able to go to sleep at night and actually be able to close your eyes and go to sleep unassisted, and spending time with your family. Like, if you can't spend time with your family, you've got a problem. So that's my idea of success. If my business and my career and my choices take me to not be able to spend time with my family or not be balanced, then I think that success is limited to those parameters.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Where's your happy place?

Jason Pittock
Spending time with my dogs and my partner at my home.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. And you have three dogs, right?

Jason Pittock
Dogs, yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Yeah. And what qualities do you value and the people you spend time with?

Jason Pittock
Well, I mean, the short of that, I guess, is people that bring out the best in you, surround yourself with the quality, people that have qualities that help you have good conversation, talk to you about your goals, about their goals, about movement. I really firm believer in movement wherever you are in life. About self improvement and continuous improvement. Yeah. As a kid, kind of say positive vibes. Right. As you get older, that actually means a bigger thing. It's different. Maybe the wording changes, but you really got to be around people who are challenging you and at the same time, comforting you when you need it, challenging you when you need it, supporting you when you need it. And I think the main thing is that they're all on the same journey, different stages of the journey. And I don't mean you need to be aligned with people in the same industry or your same financial wherever you are with your finances, but it's more about the movement. Like, are they on a journey? And do you feel that? And if you do, I think that's quality that I look for.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love that. So before we dig into SEO, tell us a little bit more about what you're doing, who you're working with.

Jason Pittock
Okay, cool. So I help mainly small medium businesses. I have had some enterprise projects, and the core of what I do is enable business leaders and professionals to understand the foundational principles of SEO. SEO is a very, very broad subject, and it can have lots of deeply entrenched principles and very nuanced. And because of that, I've developed a method which is coupled to foundational principles. And those foundational principles help businesses align their strategies and their business strategy with their SEO. SEO, obviously, is a huge part of a lot of marketing strategies today, having a website, being visible. But the reality is there is a big knowledge gap, and often the knowledge gap is really inefficient. And those inefficiencies have driven businesses to look for a different approach to SEO, which has enabled this module for education. And so I really consider myself less than implementation, more education driven. I haven't got it all figured out, and that's one of the first things I tell people. I understand SEO to the best of my ability and my experience. But the whole principle of what we teach and what I do is to allow people to think in a certain way and have a certain mindset when they approach SEO. And that really is key to unlocking some of these biggest knowledge gaps, which lead to frustration and often setbacks, which is what we want to avoid. So I help businesses drive more traffic to their websites and set themselves up for more revenue opportunity by breaking it down in a step by step approach to understanding what SEO can do and can't do for that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to ask you this because I love the fact that you talk about the fundamentals, because from a marketing standpoint, that's really what we focus on. Because the fundamentals really, they don't change, right. The tactics within marketing and digging into SEO, the tactics are evolving, but the fundamentals that really laid the foundation they're immutable, they just, they're consistent. So I love the fact that you take that approach to it, because if somebody has the fundamentals, they'll always be able to adapt to the tactics as they evolve. So one of the things that I wanted to ask you about your business, rather than going the agency route, I mean, obviously, you know SEO. Rather than going the agency route, you've gone the coaching route, which on the SEO side of things, not a lot of people do. Why did you choose to do that?

Jason Pittock
Well, I think that the reason is, is that when you have an agency, obviously you're on kind of a recurring revenue opportunity. It's a business model, which is great for maybe if you're not really interested in the relationship with the customer or the project, you're really getting to understand the business needs. A lot of agencies out there are doing a lot of good work. I actually work with a couple of very interesting agencies, and they have very good models, but I'd say on a 90% scale, most of the businesses that get engaged with the agencies are very short term engagements, and I mean less than twelve months. Now, I figured out early on that whatever I wanted to do, I wanted to build relationships. And I worked in implementation for nearly three years, and on my own projects for many other years. And I realized that implementation was very much limited to how much I could do with the understanding the client had. What do I mean by that? Because as we unlocked different stages in the SEO journey, I was actually showing them and kind of leading them and teaching them through the process. And I thought, well, hey, it makes more sense from an impact perspective and more value. How about if I reverse this and say, hey, this is the roadmap. These are the principles. Build your roadmap, unlock like a game, unlock the different chapters, the different stages, and allow people to be self led and self directed through that process. Because the key is when people understand what they're doing, the value on the perception of the intrinsic value that they feel is going to be so much different and in proportion to it will be higher. So if they understand why they're doing what they're doing, why they're paying for what they're paying for, and it really helps unlock a whole different approach. And I noticed three things changed immediately. A, the accountability to an SEO strategy. B, people not, I'd say putting a value on it so they actually don't question the value. It's more, how can we do this? How can we execute it? How does it align? And the third is, obviously the employees, the people that are building the team, are now empowered because they know and they feel in control. And it's very similar to the health and fitness industry, is that you can take someone to the gym, right, and say, hey, these are like going to work out four days a week and we're going to do this different muscle groups. But if those people, if the person or the trainer doesn't explain why to the student or to the person who's starting their fitness journey, it's only going to last so long. They're going to get frustrated and they're going to go back to Grant, like back to base zero. And the whole point is, I've seen so many businesses do that in SEO and in content, just go round and round in circles. And one of the principles that I try to work with most businesses to understand is to really build that roadmap and build out the needs that they have on that roadmap. So they have visibility. And that's why organic visibility can be a lot of things, but it's also visibility for the business to understand what the landscape looks like.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love that. As you're talking through that, I'm thinking, I can't remember the exact quote, but it's about rather than catch a fish for somebody, teach them how to fish. Right. You're really teaching them those principles of SEO so that they can actually repeat this themselves, which I really love that approach. Now, from a marketing standpoint, there's so much information out there about marketing. Who inspires you the most in marketing right now?

Jason Pittock
Any two people, probably. This is really outside of marketing, business wise. I'm going to have to go with Warren Buffett. I'm a firm believer in playing the long game and long term commitment. And the 1%, the sort of James Clear Atomic Habits, consistency and identity. That's what I've always come back to. One of my favorite sayings is you fall to the systems, you create not the goals you set. And it's a James Clear statement, but yeah, Warren Buffett would probably have to, from a business leader perspective and his mindset and his books and his teaching, I think is one in a billion. And then from a marketing perspective, I'm going to have to go with Alex Hormozi. I'm a big fan of also his writing, but just of his approach and the humility and his personality and how genuine he is about the problems in the marketplace today. And really he hits them on the head perfectly and he hasn't got it all figured out either. And he's very open about that. And I just think there is a lot of people out there who have, unfortunately, in the last five years, kind of claimed to have understood everything or maybe figured a lot of these things out. And the reality is, the quicker you realize you're not going to figure out, the more you can work on what you can figure out and help people to see that. Right. Alex Hormozi and Warren Buffett, I like that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And none of us have cracked the code and figured it all out, right?

Jason Pittock
No.

Tim Fitzpatrick

In my opinion, if somebody's there saying that they're about to go down, it doesn't work that way. So let's talk about visibility. 

What is Organic Visibility?

Tim Fitzpatrick
First off, if you could just kind of define simply what we're talking about when we talk about organic visibility and then just kind of walk us through your thought process, some of those fundamentals of achieving better organic visibility.

Jason Pittock
Yeah, great. So, organic visibility, often there's actually an article on my website, you can go and read about this. But the reality is that visibility is the principle why majority of websites are created. So if we kind of go back to our foundations or kind of our principles of why we create a website, it was most likely to have additional presence and maybe present some business services or your portfolio of a project. I work with people who are like high end architects in Barcelona who want visibility for their projects and technology integrators in the United States, who want eyeballs on their services. So it doesn't really matter what you're doing or where you are. People build websites for one common, I say common denominator for why they build a website is visibility. Now, once you understand, okay, my goal is to get more eyes on what I'm doing and the right eyes. The question is how. So how do we leverage what we have and figure out what we need to add to build that visibility? Now, Google and search engines are in the business of serving users, which are searchers, basically people making queries every single day in the search engine and they service search results. Now, organic visibility over time has become the number one reason that people have started to transition towards SEO, sometimes subconsciously, and sometimes because they've been burned by testing, maybe paid media or programmatic advertising. I mean, I actually have a video marketing operation as well, as, you know, with PPC, so I'm not grudging PPC. But often businesses from an ROI perspective have transitioned from paid media running affiliate to SEO because they're playing the long term game. Now, organic visibility becomes highly complex. When you have A a competitive landscape, that means people doing exactly the same thing as you. Maybe different colors, different branding, but ultimately the same keywords. So you now have a competitive aspect to this. It's like being in a shopping mall with your shop and someone's doing exactly the same, and their shop is right next to you. The difference with the search engine is that there are technical aspects to how you position your shop. And so the organic visibility brings out the best in the content, which is the key drivers, the website, which is really, you might say, the vehicle that gets us from A to B, and the knowledge and understanding what we need to position our content in front of so the search terms, so we can get visibility. So we're really bringing together those three aspects. Often people will focus a lot on content. For example, go really deeply into content and not really maybe have a good look at their avatar or their buyer persona. And then that leads to frustration because people position content that actually doesn't suit their buyer profile, and they get a bunch of visitors or a bunch of traffic and their conversion rates drop. And the reason is because, for example, you don't create content without knowing who you're talking to. So organic visibility is bringing together those three aspects.

The 3 Step Framework to Improve Visibility

Tim Fitzpatrick
Real quick, tell me those three one more time, because I want to pull something out here. I think ideal client, right? You've got to really understand your ideal client.

Jason Pittock
Yeah. So the first thing you need to understand is you have a vehicle which is your website. Okay? This can often be interpreted as a vehicle. So your website is your vehicle. This is the first thing that we need to analyze. The second thing we need to analyze is the search terms or the intent of who you're trying to attract. So often people can talk about this as your by persona, as keywords, as the search terms that are going to position your vehicle. And the third, at the top of the pyramid is your content, or whatever it is, because often you refer to content, you think of blog articles. It can be anything. I know websites that do extremely well with portfolio projects. Like example, I don't know, they're like an architect, as I said in Barcelona, who was a client student or a client of mine, and she did really well, just taking great photography of her projects, optimizing the page, uploading the photos, and it did incredibly well. So when I say content, don't always think just articles and just typical, like, pages on a website. It can be anything. And I mean anything. And there's a glitch to that. But the content is obviously at the top of the pyramid. On the left you've got your website, and basically on the right you've got your buyer persona, your search terms, and what triggers that visibility.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. I love it, dude. You're breaking this down into pretty simple terms, which I love. And I love the fact that you're highlighting. In my opinion, everything from a marketing standpoint starts with your target market and your ideal clients. You really can't do anything effective if you don't have that dialed in. When you talk about your website. Can we dig into this a little bit? When you talk about the website, are you specifically looking at how it's set up, the content that's actually on the page of the structure of the website, like that journey that people are leading, want to lead people visitors down or what are you looking at?

Jason Pittock
Well, that's a really good question. When we refer to optimizing a website, that's what you're really referring to, right? Like kind of optimizing the interface and the website that we're bringing in traffic. Is that what you're referring to when you meet?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Right. Because the website as the vehicle is in your framework. What kinds of things do we need to look at with our website? Because one of the things you touched on is people driving traffic back to a website and it doesn't convert. Right. And that is a common complaint or issue. When I talk to people that have invested in SEO, they're like, yeah, we're driving more traffic to the site, but we're not getting more leads. And to me, that is a specific issue with the website. I have my opinions on that, but I want to hear yours and then I can certainly add mine.

Jason Pittock
There's obviously lots of aspects to this. The first is I'm going to pull a quote, which is a Don Draper quote from Mad Men, which there comes a point when seduction is over and a force is required. The game of this is, if you had to compare something like any performance marketing channel, any acquisition medium, there is lots to tabulate, there is lots of details, and there's lots of parts that we need to analyze to kind of understand and create a conclusion. But there are a few things that we can pick out. I would say that I like the most important, and the first thing I would say is understanding what metrics you're reading to be able to build conclusions. Because the first thing you need to do is start building some conclusions that need to be founded on data. And the first thing we're going to be using is search console, and we're going to be using analytics and we are going to be looking at some competitive landscape metrics. This is going to allow us to build some level of a conclusion, which isn't an assumption. It's a conclusion based on data that will then help us analyze A what do we need to do to get out of this situation if it's a bad one, and B if it is a good one, how can we grow it? Now doing a full circle when we're looking at the website in regards to getting the right people, there is lots of reasons why people have the wrong traffic on their website. As I said at the beginning, it can be because they've targeted the wrong search terms. It can be because their content isn't optimized for the search term that they expected it to be or initially created it for. I often say one content cluster, one channel, one buyer persona, and that just build it from that, like just start really granular. Okay, I want to dominate this keyword group and this takes me to one of the foundational principles in the training. We talk a lot about building content clusters and something that I have named topical authority. This means establishing a website in a topic. The reason this happened is because 2020, Google released something a really big, I would say algorithm update, but I would call it more of a strategy move. So Google has got so much information out there, right? There is so much archived information. Everything's out there, anything that has been done or been said is pretty much printed or published on the internet. So what they realized is the only way for the Internet to scale was to archive websites according to their authority and their topic. And so I kind of developed this personal way of referring to this called topical authority. And what it means is, if you had to choose a topic like, let's say Argentine football right now, who is the authority in talking about the historical truth and lies about Argentine soccer? Because there are a lot of gray areas. So, for example, somebody out there has created a blog or a website, or they could have a YouTube channel wherever their content is placed because that's kind of just a medium tactic. Somebody is going to be the voice, right? This is the same thing that happens on websites. You need to be an authority in at least one thing and then you can start to build on a second thing and a third thing and a fourth thing and a five. And before you know, before you know where you are, you've got, you know, you're you're ranked for maybe ten topics and 10,000 keywords. Because one topic that has lots of keywords and lots of different, you might say, variations of the search term. So the point is, when it comes to creating content, you don't want to create content just for the purpose of uploading a blog on your article, saying uploading a blog or article to your website and saying, hey, I've created some content. I read it. The idea is that it has a purpose. So who are we influencing? What search term? How does this link back to our business strategy and how does that link to where you want to be an authority?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. Okay. I love it.

Jason Pittock
I know it's a lot.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. No, I love it. So we've got to focus the website, ideal clients, and the search terms that they're searching for. Right. That's going to help. And that is going to then help define the content that you choose to create. And when you choose that content, you should be focusing on one content cluster or topic at a time.

Jason Pittock
Yeah, that really comes down to like, personal recommendation. And again, when it comes to SEO strategies, there's lots of lots of ways to approach this. I mean, you see people skimming in different topics and creating a content strategy that covers lots of content clusters. But I would always recommend to not become a jack of all trades and focus on one content cluster at a time and make sure that's aligned with your A, your business strategy. So your go to market, your product market, fit your buyer persona, principally who you're talking to and the voice that you've chosen to talk to them as. Was it? I don't know. Is it something William Shakespeare said? Something like, jack of all trades is a master of none, but often better than a master of none. Actually, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I've seen people choose both strategies. I think one is going to get you there a little bit more efficiently and probably more is probably better to quantify. But I mean, if you had a million dollars and you had to create content, right? Someone said, hey, here's a million dollars, go and create content. Go and drive traffic. I would choose to take on a topic one piece at a time because you aren't going to be able to, A suffice the needs of Google's algorithm to say, hey, this guy is now relevant for this topic, and B creating Authority is you understanding the topic that you're talking about to the highest level because it's competitive out there. You can't just start writing about I don't know about technical SMTP and SEO without you actually knowing exactly what you're talking about. I mean, you can, but this is just going to be more fluff, which is exactly what Google is trying to minimize. And the way that they're doing it is by saying, we are not going to rank you unless you've proven to us that you want to be an authority in this space. So basically it's the end of the imposter. I think there is a lot of imposters in the digital space. And when it comes to content, it's easy to hire somebody and just go and create some content. Here a bunch of keywords, go and figure it out. But unless it's part of your business strategy, it relates back to your content clusters. It relates back to where you want to become an authority, and it's directed to somebody you know who you're talking to. It's going to be unfortunate. It's going to be very difficult to rank that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I was just going to say how deep should you go on a content cluster? And I realize this might vary a little bit, but I'm just trying to think about within marketing a content cluster is not marketing. A content cluster needs to go deeper than that. Right? And my question is, is SEO deep enough or do you need to go even deeper where it's like organic visibility is the cluster?

Jason Pittock
Yes. So good question. When it comes to how deep or how nuanced you need to become on a subject, really, it's going to depend on your resources to supply that. This really now becomes supply and demand. There are ways with applying some very basic data sets or doing some analysis with Google Analytics and some keyword software, you can quickly analyze how big a content cluster is. So are we looking at like 150,000 searches a month, or we're looking at 50,000 searches a month? And immediately you can get an idea of those 50,000, which articles or which pieces of content or websites are ranking. And now that has informed us actually how much content we need to rank for a certain content cluster. So it's not like and then obviously it's how much can we do with the resources we have? And one of the recommendations I try to make to people I work with is focus on what currently we can invest in. I don't think at any point, if you've got a budget, keep to it. Don't put your budget into overdrive and focus those resources you have into something that you're highly qualified in. And I often use this analogy as the onion effect. So if you've got a topic that you know a lot about because it's your area of expertise, let's say you're a tax return specialist and you know everything about corporate tax. So I would recommend that you start really granular and then build out. So for example, start choosing really long tail. For example, take your conversations with your clients. Write down notes after a conversation. Turn them into content. If people are asking you them on your calls, in your meetings, when you go and meet them face to face, they're most likely querying them in Google. So start to build up a content strategy that is driven by your content, your clients conversations. That's a good way to start without having to kind of go too deep into keyword research and SEO recommendations. And then start granular. And then as you are granular, then you can come out and grow out. And it's kind of like layer on layer on layer on layer like an onion. And that's going to allow you to develop this fiber to be able to take on a subject and own it. And I don't know how long or broad that's going to look like because A, it's going to depend on the industry you're in, and B, on your resources because it's endless. I've seen websites of people publishing 20 articles a month that are just news articles about a subject that primarily they're not going to rank for. So they're investing, you know, maybe two or three or five or $10,000 a month on content for something that actually isn't optimized for visibility, but they just want to publish news because they want to get picked up with RSS or people just reading their news section on the website. So it really does depend on your industry and how big your content cluster is that you're going after. And I'd say how much the resources that you have available and that you're comfortable with investing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Thank you for breaking that down. 

The Future of SEO

Tim Fitzpatrick

I want you to break out your crystal ball. What's the future of SEO looking like here?

Jason Pittock
What's going on in SEO? Well, the future of SEO, I think, is going to be value driven content. Like, real creators will be the kings, and the queens will be people that have been very consistent with their digital assets in their websites, their applications. That being said, I'm actually just releasing an article this afternoon, but you can go look at my blog, which is the Ten Predictions for SEO Predictions for 2023. But one of the primary conclusions is, I think content creators and people that have truly committed to just simply delivering value and getting it out there to the best of their ability are going to be the people that we're going to see rise and continue to rise. And then from a technical perspective, I believe that Google will crush Chat GPT OpenAI.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Which is so funny. I was going to ask you about this.

Jason Pittock
Those guys don't have a chance. Microsoft or Google? Bing or Google will just will just gobble these guys out for dinner. What people don't understand, I think, is that no one has yet done a business transaction with Chat GPT, right? You kind of do searches and it's kind of fun, but there hasn't been like a clear exchange of value number one. And the reason being is that one of the biggest things that Google has is historical data and real time processing. And not to mention that one of the sharpest things, I think that Google coupled to in an update in 2021 called EAT, which stands for Expertise, Authority, and Trust, is that they were developing an algorithm that is built off perspective, authority, and search or intent. So if you had a certain voice that a certain user out there in the middle of the unknown really likes and reads, google is starting to deliver algorithm updates that are going to align your content with that user. Now, how is that going to be replaced? How is human perspective going to be overtaken by machine learning, which is self improved, but like, in every two years or maybe every four years now, let's just say the internet speeds up and even like the whole technology innovation, which is incredible for short form content, I think it's incredible. I think it's very smart. But unless that speeds up to, I would say, what the same indexing procedures that Google has, which is like every four to five days, they're indexing websites. Unless it can get to that level of real time processing, I don't see a value fit as of yet, other than anything else like Alexa or Siri or any of these other assistants. And the last thing I'll say is about the future is that artificial intelligence and AI is a buzzword used by people actually know very little about it. When AI is referred to in the technology and marketing space, it's used to increase the perceived value of a product or a service. Generally it's a software. And these SaaS, like SaaS enterprise organizations are like, you putting on their websites as like sexy buzzword like AI. The reality is very few could actually truly be called AI. AI is when data is leveraged in real time and the user experience is self improved. User experience noticeably has self improvement. So, for example, a robot that takes a drink to a hotel, like a hotel, like, I mean, I was in a hotel once in 2018 in China, and I ordered a drink and the Coca Cola came to me in this little robot thing, and you open the door and there's a Coca Cola there. But that's not AI. That's a command. That's a database with a command, a set of rules, and that's it, unless you consent. Self learning and self learning there is a paper trail for the self learning. It's very, very complicated to call it artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence is something that is definitely happening. And I think what we're seeing with Chat GPT potentially could become the beginning of something a lot bigger, maybe, but it's definitely not the thing. I can tell you that. I'm happy to put my name on the line for that. I'm totally comfortable saying that. These bigger search engines that have 24 years of search data and pinpoint, pretty much every user out there, they'll have them in their afternoon lunch sandwich.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, so I want to ask you a question, and honestly, I don't know enough about Chat GPT to understand where they're actually when you type in something that you want it to give you information on where that data is actually coming from. I also think it's so early that we really don't even we have an inkling of how people are going to use this. I can see how there's some serious value in it, but one of the things that people are already using it for is, I want to write a blog post on XYZ, or, hey, I want to write a blog post on organic visibility. What elements do I need to make sure are in this article? Right? And Chat GPT will spit that out. The thing that I potentially see happening with tools like this is I may not need to do it right now, I'm doing search queries in Google for that, right? And with Chat GPT, I can go in and do that, get a summary really quick. It's saving me a ton of time and I'm doing less search queries. So over time, as people start to use technology like this, do you think search query volume may go down?

Jason Pittock
No, because it's P to P. Right. The problem with Chat GPT and why the model, I think is incredible, but I think it's like extremely immature and I think it's very early days for us to make any conclusions other than that, I think they're going to be gobbled up by bigger search engine. That's just my only conclusion. That the only conclusion I can make at the moment, is that P to P is safe, because it's how you build up a network of authority. The problem with Chat GPT is how do you validate the content?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Right.

Jason Pittock
How do you validate it? If you ask Alexa, hey, Alexa, what's the weather going to be tomorrow? Well, that's programmatic then going into database, looking at the weather, turning it into text, putting it into audio, Spanish, English, whatever, and then giving you the content, right? It's logical. It's not even artificial intelligence. It's just an application. Doing something on a command. Now, Chat GPT is no different. Just all they're doing is pulling the content from the biggest database in the world, which is alphabet, which is Google.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it.

Jason Pittock
And the reality is, I believe that AI is going to do a lot in the future. This isn't AI. Like, I'm being like even the way they've branded it is kind of disturbing because it's not AI, it's regurgitating content that's already been created. Now, AI would be if it's selfimproved. But how does it validate what it spent out is right or wrong? That's where I see the big gap. So, for example, a website knows that when content is published on their website, it's linked to in the search results. So you can validate, okay, hey, I don't ever want to read Jasonpittock.com again, or, I always want to read Jasonpittock.com again. Right. You can validate that yourself with your own intuition, your intent. How does that happen with Chat GPT? How do they qualify that the results are self improving because they don't have any feedback other than a little tick and an upmark and a down mark, a bit like reddit. So I think two things are going to happen. One is Chat GPT most likely will realize that they need to link to the database, which would basically mean that they would be like an assistant that you could chat to. But it will all go and link back to Google's, you might say database, which would be basically listed websites. I think that was going to happen. I definitely do, because I don't see it surviving through that because people are going to start to it's going to be fun, but it's going to be like Pokemon Go. People played Pokemon Go, I think the other day I was reading it, it was like four months. They played it really intensely, and the drop off rate was like, 98%. Where did Pokemon Go? Like, nobody plays Pokemon Go anymore. But honestly, five years ago, Pokemon Go, people were having car accidents because they were trying to do you remember that or not?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I do briefly remember that.

Jason Pittock
So where did it go? Right. I think at the moment, it's very novel, it's very fun. And I think people have, like, a buzzword for a lot of people to talk about it. But the reality is, unless there is like a proper interchange of exchange of value and we break down what value looks like in a search result, you're not going to copy and paste the content from Chat GPT and create an article because they clearly say it's watermarked and they have some technology that would watermark the content. So, again, what's the value? Okay, it's informative for their users, but unless the users can validate the content, then there is a problem. So I think it has a place. I just don't think it is what we currently are experiencing. I think it's it could be plugged into Google, for example, into Alexa, and enhance the experience of Alexa and then drive the sales of Alexa up. I just don't see it as like a standalone functionality to boycott Google that's got like, I don't know, 13 billion websites, which is like crazy index. So we'll see, but time will tell. But that's my play out.

In Conclusion: How To Achieve Organic Visibility With SEO

Tim Fitzpatrick
There you go. You're on record as saying, Jason, this has been awesome, man. I really appreciate you taking the time today. Where can people learn more about you?

Jason Pittock
Yeah. So you go to my website, ,Jasonpittock.com And you can fill out a form there, and you get sent, like, a questionnaire that kind of breaks down you where you're at and SEO and kind of how I might be able to help you or at least have a one to one conversation, kind of walk through where you're at. I have a couple of different packages. Most of my packages start off at like $4,000, which include access to all of the principal foundational training modules, which is four of them. I didn't actually list the modules because we were busy talking about other things, but just to name them off, they are. The SEO Foundational method to developing organic visibility is foundation number one. Two is how to create an optimized content that ranks. Module three is a proven system for building natural organic backlinks. And number four is how to create an SEO roadmap for your Business. So they're like the four principles that I use and teach people to work through. Again, there's like 1 hour and a half training in each module. Comes with the full ebook. And you also get access to 60 minutes training, live training with me, like one on one. So that's like the basic package anyone can find on my website. Just go to jasonpittock.com/contact. Reach out and I'll send you all of the information needed. And if not, you can just go to my coaching landing page on the website.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. Jason obviously knows what he's talking about. Guys, if you want to level up your SEO skills in house so that you can actually do this stuff for yourself rather than outsourcing it, head on over to .Jasonpittock.com and that's pittock.com. Jason, thank you so much for taking the time. For those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you. If you want to accelerate revenue growth and you want to know what roadblocks are slowing down your growth, head on over to revenueroadblockscorecard.com. In less than five minutes, you'll be able to discover and assess which roadblocks are slowing down your growth. You can also always connect with us over at Rialtomarketing.Com. That's R-I-A-L-T-O marketing.Com. Thanks so much, guys. Until next time. Take Care.

Jason Pittock
Thanks, Guys. Thank You.