How To Hire Better People Faster

Finding and hiring the right people to join your team can be challenging, but it's critical if you want your business to grow. That's why we've got Ryan Englin from Core Matters with us today. He's going to show you how to hire better people faster.

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How To Hire Better People Faster



Tim Fitzpatrick
How can your business grow without finding and hiring the right people? The short answer is it can't. That is why today I've got a special guest with me today and we are going to dig into how to hire better people faster. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing. Thank you so much for tuning in. I am super excited to have with me today Ryan Englin from Core Matters. Ryan, thanks so much for joining me and taking the time.

Ryan Englin
Thanks for having me, Tim.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, absolutely. It's a pleasure. I was fortunate enough to be on your podcast Blue Collar Culture a little while back. And I appreciate you hopping on and sharing your wisdom with our audience today.

Ryan Englin
Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And happy Friday the 13th. By the way, if you're watching this live or listening live, it is Friday the 13th and 2020, which has been a crazy year, obviously. So are you superstitious?

Ryan Englin
I'm not.

Tim Fitzpatrick
OK. Me neither. So we're just going to run with it.

Ryan Englin
Doesn't mean I couldn't figure out something bad that would happen today and blame it on the day. So.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, yeah. There's always something you can blame it on, right.

Ryan Englin
Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So before we dig into it, just tell us a little bit more about you personally and what you're doing at Core Matters.

Ryan Englin
Absolutely. So let me go back just real quick to the beginning. So I grew up a family that my dad was in manufacturing, so he was a blue collar guy through and through. And I remember being a kid and him working all the time. All the time. I mean, the machines would go down. No one else could fix. He'd have an employee quit and he wouldn't know what to do. And I mean, here we are. And he's well past retirement age and he's still working.

Ryan Englin
He's still the only guy that can work on those machines. And so when I started my marketing company about a decade ago, I was just drawn to the blue collar industry, the trades, the home services, everything else, and after a while, I realized that the reason these companies weren't growing wasn't because of a lack of leads or because of a lack of new customers, it was because they couldn't find the right people to service these customers.

Ryan Englin
And so in 2015, I started working with one client. I said, hey, let's see if we can fix the recruiting issue, forget the lead stuff. And it just clicked. And so for the last 5 years that's what I've been doing, is working with blue collar companies to hire front line talent because there's not a lot of people out there supporting that because it's those front line people, whether you want to believe it or not, they're the people on which your company is built.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Absolutely.

Ryan Englin
And so if you don't have good service techs, if you don't have good laborers, if you don't have people that can just show up. And actually what I like to say, give a damn that you're not going to you're not going be able to grow the company the way you want to. The owner will always be involved. They're always going to get pulled into the fire and ultimately they're just not going to achieve what they want. And I know a lot of these companies are started because these business owners want something more for their family.

Ryan Englin
They want something more for their life. My dad worked so hard not because he just wanted to work. It's because he wanted to provide for his family. Yeah, he missed out on a lot of things with his family because he was working so hard. And I want to help businesses break that cycle and be able to focus on the things that are really important to them and the reasons that they started their business, because most people didn't say, I want to start a business because I want to make less money and work twice as many hours. That's what happens all the time. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. If you can't find the right people to help you scale and help, honestly, I'm in a lot of us as business owners struggle with pulling ourselves out of the business. It's to the businesses, too, owner dependent. And we can't get out of that cycle if we can't find the right people.

Ryan Englin
Absolutely. And that's why I like working with small business owners and entrepreneurs, because, you know, just a couple of little changes, a couple little tweaks, hiring a couple the right people can really just change their business.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, and having a system in place so that when you need to hire, you're not sitting there stuck. You can just get rolling, put that thing in place and you know that it works. I can imagine how life-changing that is for them. So I'm excited to dig into this because I think it is a really good topic. And I think that is something that's going to help a lot of people. And obviously, one of the biggest problems that businesses have is just finding good people.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You know, they hire somebody thinking it's going to be great and it's three weeks in. They're like, oh, my God, this is not what I thought it was. This is awful. So why is it so hard to find good employees?

Ryan Englin
Well, there's a couple of reasons. And pandemic aside, because it really changed a lot of things. But overall, I think when you're a small business, one of the biggest challenges you have is you have to understand that when you're competing for employees, it's not the same as competing for customers. So if you are an HVAC technician, you're competing with other HVAC companies for customers. But if you are an employer, you're competing against the Amazons and the Microsoft and the Googles and the Facebook and all these cool jobs that every once those are your competition when it comes to finding and attracting good talent.

Ryan Englin
And so if you're paying twelve, fifteen dollars an hour for a front line worker, so is Amazon. Amazon's putting them in their living room, letting them sit on the computer all day. It's just more of a fun job. So, one of the biggest challenges that the small businesses have is that they haven't understood that that's their competition when it comes to finding employees. And if that's their competition now, you have to be found as easily as those guys are. You have to have a system that's built and a process for applying that's as easy as theirs are.

Ryan Englin
And so I think one of the biggest challenges we have as small businesses is we can't be found. We're not standing out in that crowded marketplace, and then the other thing is, is if they do find us, they don't know how to apply. They don't know how to connect with us. They don't know what jobs are open because the system that's been built around that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So we have to look at what some of these larger companies are doing and make sure that we're competitive with what they're doing.

Ryan Englin
Absolutely. I mean, I know for a fact that Amazon spends tens of millions of dollars a year on advertising. They're open jobs. I don't think small business owners that are able to do that. We're competing against that. And if we recognize that we're competing against that, what are the couple of things we can do is small business owners to really stand out and attract the good people?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, so it's because of the lack of the system or process that is making it hard to find good people because the good people go into that process and they're like, oh my God, if this is what it's like to work here, I don't want to be here.

Ryan Englin
Yeah, I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that we could dig into. But I think one of the biggest things that I run into is you have to think about as an applicant, just like you would think about a customer lead. So if a customer called you and said, hey, I'm interested in you coming out to my house or coming out to my business, would you let that sit for five, six days before you got home?

Ryan Englin
But when we're recruiting, we do it all the time. An applicant comes in, you're in the middle of fires, you're in the middle of dealing with your business, serving your customers. You're like, I'll get back to that applicant. Well, that applicant needs a job and they're going to keep looking just like a customer would keep calling if they never heard back. And the thing about good people, the thing about and that's the thing I always hear people can find people. It's the good people that they really want to find. That's right. People is they're going to get snatched up. Yes. It's just like a customer that can pay, like those ideal customers.

Ryan Englin
Somebody is going to service them. Might as well be you. Same thing happens with applicants. Somebody is going to offer them a job. And if it's not you, then you're really going to struggle to find good people.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I've always thought that, like applicant, it seems like a lot of business owners fall into that trap where it's like, hey, I'm the one that's offering the job. Right. They feel like they're in this position of power in some way, shape or form. And it's really not that way. I mean, people that are looking for jobs have choices. They don't want to work just anywhere. And so if you're going to start this relationship off on the right foot, it needs to be more simpatico here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You know, it's like they should be the employee or the applicant really should be interviewing the company just as much as the company's interviewing, interviewing the applicant.

Ryan Englin
Yeah. And when we talk about interviewing, which I think we're going to get to in a little bit, but just a little bit of foreshadowing here. Interviewing the thing that I see about employers is they're desperate. They've got someone on the other side of the table. They can fog a mirror, showed up like I'm going to hire them. And then, as you said in the opening, three weeks go by and they're like, what the heck, who is this?

Ryan Englin
This isn't the person that I interviewed. And it's like, well, did you really spend time interviewing them? Did you really spend time getting to know them? And so I think that's a big challenge, too. Is feel is remembering that as an employer. Yes. You're in the decision seat and you have the power, but so are they because they have options. And as we go online and as the world becomes work from home and remote and everything else, those options expand a lot.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So let me ask you another follow-up question here, because I've heard a lot of people say this hire slow, fire fast, right. And you know, hire slow meaning take your time to do what you need to do to properly qualify the applicant. Do you agree with that or what are your thoughts on that?

Ryan Englin
So there are some states in this country where it is faster and easier to get a divorce from your spouse than it is to fire an employee. And I ask people all the time, like, how long did you date your spouse? Nobody says, oh, 12 minutes. Like they showed up, right? Yeah, I proposed and I got married.

Ryan Englin
Nobody did that. Yeah, I absolutely subscribe to that. And hire slow does not mean time like calendar time. It doesn't mean take forty five days to hire someone. It's well means get a chance to really know them, get to understand who it is that you're talking to. One of the things about the modern workforce and millennials get a bad rap all the time. And I think it's just because they're easy to pick on.

Ryan Englin
But Millennials are some of the hardest workers out there because millennials struggle to unplug. So you can get somebody working fifteen hours a day, but they're going to do it on their terms. And what they've done is they've created what I call the modern workforce and the modern workforce isn't concerned about a pension and great benefits and long term employment. Modern workforce is more aligned to a purpose. They want to know that they're making a difference when they get out of bed in the morning.

Ryan Englin
And I think that as employers recognize that and make that shift and say, you know what, maybe it's not the that I'm paying above market wages or that I have this amazing benefit package or I've got this 401k match that's unheard of in my industry. The modern workforce doesn't care anymore because the truth is that employee is going to be with you about three point one years. That's it. Average person switches jobs every three years. So if that's the case, the long term benefits stuff that we're used to attracting employees with and it's gone.

Ryan Englin
So if you want to find good people, focus on purpose. Focus on values. And that's one of the things that I think happens is that we've forgotten that this is a relationship. Yes, this is like getting married. It's a relationship. Yes. Give and take on both sides.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So. One of the things it seems like so you just said, in order to attract good people, it's not what it used to be. You know, there are a lot of people that are looking for making a difference, having a purpose in what they do. Do you think part of being able to attract good people then is that company having their story down, you know, their messaging down? It's like, why the hell would I want to work for you? Do they need to have that down?

Ryan Englin
Yes, they do. If you want to attract good people, you have to be attractive to good people. I mean, that's just the honest truth. I mean, I've never used one of these dating apps, but I know that there's like the swipes and all of that stuff. If your profile picture doesn't look like first impressions, that's it. They don't agree that you've got degrees. They don't care that you've got lots of money in the bank. If they don't like looking at you on that app, they swipe, you know. It's the same thing here.

Ryan Englin
If someone goes online and Googles you, which, by the way, about 90 percent of job seekers look for jobs online first. And when they find your job, about 70 percent of those are actually going to Google you before they apply. And if you've got horrible Yelp reviews, if you've got better business reviews that say you're not good or you don't have a good rating with them, if you've got bad Google reviews or even worse, if they can't find anything about you, that's almost worse nowadays than having bad reviews, because now there's that is this a legitimate business? If they Google you and it's not attractive, they're going to move on.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's such an interesting point, because as a marketer, you know, we talk about your online presence all the time and how that really sets the stage for people that are checking out your business. Most people never think about the fact that it's not just your online presence isn't just about attracting new clients, it's about attracting new employees as well.

Ryan Englin
One of the things that's cool about the work we do, because it's all driven by marketing. I mean, it's about messaging. It's all about the right people, the right message in front of the right people. I mean, you know what I'm talking about. When it comes to recruiting, what we've found is that if we create campaigns, marketing message advertisements, if we think about our brand from a recruiting perspective, it's really easy to attract great customers as well.

Ryan Englin
But the engross doesn't hold true. So our focus is very much think about your website, think about your online presence. Think about when a prospective employee were to find that. What would they think? Yeah, because if you've got bad reviews, because maybe and for a lot of small businesses, this is the truth. They have bad reviews because they don't have enough good people. Maybe they've got a couple of bad employees or they're shorthanded and so they're not getting projects done on time.

Ryan Englin
And that's what creates those bad reviews. A good employee sees that and says, wait a minute, if they're not taking care of the customers, which for most business owners is person number one. Yeah. How are they going to take care of their employees?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Absolutely.

Ryan Englin
And so we really need to get clear on that and making sure that our reputation is in alignment with the kind of people we want to attract.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. So what else can we do to attract good people?

Ryan Englin
So when someone tells me they can't find good people, what I hear and what I found that they really mean is they can't find people that care like I care and they can't find people that value what I value. Now, they won't use those words. Yeah, because they're not that clear on it. But that's what they're really saying. Every business owner I talked to says I wish I could find people that just cared about my business like I do.

Ryan Englin
And the truth is, there are people out there that will care more about the business than you will. Truth is that there are people out there that can do that. But the problem is we don't understand as business owners who those people are, where they spend their time, message them how we can find them. I mean, in marketing, the right message is great, but if you're putting it in front of the wrong people, it's not going to work.

Ryan Englin
And so if you're the business owner that has continued to get what I call bottom feeders. Stop fishing out of the cesspools. Stop going into the sewage plant and grabbing whatever is eaten, whatever that is. And you know, it's I use a lot of fishing analogies because recruiting is fishing. Yeah, it really is. It's casting a bait out there and saying, let's see what we catch today. And in fishing, the first decision you have to make.

Ryan Englin
Let me ask you this, what's the first decision you have to make if you want to go fishing? What's the first thing that you need to decide?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Where I'm going to go?

Ryan Englin
It's actually not.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No?

Ryan Englin
Because what dictates where you're going to go? What kind of fish you want to catch?

Tim Fitzpatrick
OK, yeah, there you go. All right.

Ryan Englin
If you're not clear on the fish you want to catch, you can't make any other decisions. You know, if I go down to the county pond down here and I hang out at the park, but I really want to catch salmon, there's not going to be it's not going to work. It's not going to work. And I'm disappointed time and time again.

Ryan Englin
I'm like, there's got to be salmon in here. And it's the same thing. Like there's got to be good people on and there's got to be good people on Craigslist. I'm just going to keep focusing on those job boards. And until you're really clear on who it is that you want on your team values alignment, how they're going to show up, what kind of behaviors, what's important to them. A lot of things that we need to think about until you figured that out. I tell people all the time, don't bother spending money on ads. You're just going to be you're going to be fishing in the wrong places.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're really helping people. This is so funny how much similarity there is between marketing and recruiting. You've got to get those fundamentals down of your where's your where your target employees. What are you going to say to them, you know, and what's your plan going to be to then attract those people?

Tim Fitzpatrick
So we've talked a little bit about, obviously, your culture and putting out a good online presence is a great way to attract the right people. What kind of things do you recommend people do in their job ads to attract the right people? You know, we've talked about values like do you recommend that people I mean, they put out their values in their job postings. I mean, what do you what does that look like?

Ryan Englin
They absolutely should. So when we teach and we write a lot of job ads, but we also teach how to write job ads. When we write job ads, we actually do not teach what I call the three R's. We don't teach that because everybody knows the three R's. What are the requirements for doing the job? What are your responsibilities and how are we going to reward you? Everybody knows how to do those. What we teach is how do you write an ad that's attractive? Think about a job ad like a TV commercial.

Ryan Englin
A television commercial for a new car never says, by the way, at five hundred miles after the break and you're going to be bringing it in to get the oil change and get it inspected. And if there's any warranty issues we'll cover it. A television commercial for new car is never going to say every three thousand or five thousand miles you've got to change the oil and you've got to do this. There's all this maintenance. They don't talk about that stuff, but they do is they promote what people want with that new car experience.

Ryan Englin
If you remember one thing, it's that people don't leave jobs. People leave managers. They leave bosses. So an electrician isn't going to go apply for other electrician jobs because he doesn't like being an electrician. It just doesn't make any sense. He's going to apply for other electrician jobs because just like the guy he's working for, he's working for. And so if you remember that the number one reason people leave their current employer is the employer.

Ryan Englin
Your job ad should really focus on the employer, not the work. An electrician knows how to be an electrician. Sure, you might hold them accountable differently. You might have different metrics. You might have different rules. But what's really different about you from their current employer is your company culture and your leadership. So if you remember that people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, one of the best things you can do in your job, that is talk about their boss at the new place.

Ryan Englin
Help them understand that, yes, the grass really is greener over here. I really do care about our people and it can't just be lip service, just like in marketing, you can't promise something that you can't commit to. Because you will end up with horrible reviews and upset customers if expectations are met.

Ryan Englin
If you really do value your people and you really do invest in them and you train them and you coach them and you want personal growth for them. Talk about that in your job, because that's what people are looking for. They're not looking for another place to go, clock a nine to five and turn a wrench because they're already doing that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I've had a lot of people say that in job ads, you should at the very bottom, you put some type of qualifier in there like don't submit your resume if you're interested. Please do X or something like that to read people out that are just frickin just applying to anything and everything. What are your thoughts on that?

Ryan Englin
Yeah, I agree with that. So the job boards, if you remember the job boards were created to provide a quantity of applications to employers, not necessarily a quality, yes. And so their focus is on quantity. Well, the only way you can really get quantity is by making it easy on the job seeker. So there are job boards out there where a job seeker can say, hey, there's twenty five jobs that look good. Check them all and say apply. And I've seen it so many times where that the employer will call the job seeker and the job seekers like who are you again?

Ryan Englin
So those Easter eggs, that's what I call them. Those are Easter eggs. I love Easter eggs. Especially, if you don't have a system, a software platform to help you manage your recruiting, which I do recommend, everybody gets. But if you don't have one, Easter eggs are great. And sometimes I'll see people say things like when you email us, put this in the subject line. And they and I actually don't recommend you do it at the bottom. I recommend you do it just in the middle of a paragraph somewhere.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're really burying it.

Ryan Englin
Yeah. Bury people. One of my favorite ones to do, because this is just especially in the trades, this is just so out of left field. But somewhere in the middle of the job will say, by the way, when you send us this. Put the name of your favorite Disney princess in the subject line. I'm just so out of left field, like if someone actually does it, you know, they read the job ad.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. I love it.

Ryan Englin
So so that is one way. If you use the software that I recommend, which is an applicant tracking system, is very similar to a CRM. What those systems allow you to do is create what I call knock out questions. And so these are questions that the job seeker is required to answer and then the system will actually decide automatically whether or not you should see that resume. One of the most recent clients we worked with, they required their techs to crawl through crawlspaces, so they're back Slotter crawlspaces in the homes.

Ryan Englin
Well, there's a cluster phobia thing. There's fears around that. There's all sorts of things. So they actually ask the question, are you OK? Crawling through crawlspaces the majority of the day. And if people say no, the system can automatically reject that applicant. So as a small business owner, you have to deal with that. Yeah, because that's one of the other challenges is they come in on Monday morning and they've got one hundred new applications and they're like, oh, maybe there's someone good in here. I'm going to find the time to go through them all.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you really want your process or your system needs to have some way of filtering all the applicants so that you're really spending time on are the highest quality applicants?

Ryan Englin
Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's where those Easter eggs come in. So you don't have the software. The Easter eggs will help you filter because you can even set up rules in Outlook or Gmail that say when this subject line comes in here, you should move it. And people get creative with that stuff, like don't overthink it too much. The one thing that I tell people, especially when they're looking for front line employees, is remember that these people aren't creative writers.

Ryan Englin
You know, they're not used to following really detailed instructions and working well on a computer. That's what they do for a living. You know, if you're looking for a copywriter. Yeah. You can like, hey, I you're going to be writing. I want to see some cool stories. Yeah. But if you're looking for a craft worker who or a welder or something like that, you can't set the expectation in such that you're setting them up to fail.

Ryan Englin
You've got to make it simple for them. I've seen some crazy ones that are like your first paragraph needs to have three sentences. Your second paragraph has seven sentences and it's like uh, I wouldn't even want to filter that. Yeah. So just easy one liners will help a lot with.

Tim Fitzpatrick
OK, I love it. So we talked about why it's so hard to find good employees, talked about how to attract some of the right employees. How do we find the right person and make sure that the person we're interviewing is going to work out?

Ryan Englin
Sure. So if you think about customers. I'll just start with a customer example. We've all had a customer that we're like, oh my gosh, why did I take them on as a customer? Yeah, and a lot of times if you really diagnose the issue, especially if you're starting to see a pattern of taking on a lot of customers, what we find is that the problem isn't the customer or the problem isn't the employee or the problem is unmet expectations.

Ryan Englin
Either their expectations were set by a previous relationship or something, or you're saying something in your marketing or sales process that setting expectations that you can't live up to. And so what we found is about nine times out of ten when we're banging our four head, three weeks after the person started going, what the heck happened?

Ryan Englin
Because expectations weren't that. Now, if it happens within the first 90 days, I always point back to it's a hiring issue. We made a bad hiring decision. If we're finding that we have low quality employees after they've been with us for 90 days, it's a culture or leadership issue. So two different problems I'm going to focus on the easier one to solve, which is the 90 day issue. Yeah, we're making a bad hiring decision and if expectations aren't being met, we need to be really clear on what expectations we have going in and what expectations they have going in.

Ryan Englin
And you can't find that out in a 15 minute interview. You can't spend time with someone and say, hey, you showed up on time, you've got a ride to work. It looks like you have the skills, you're hired. You can't set proper expectations there. And so in our book, Unmasked, which I want to share a free download with everybody at the end who we talk about, how do you get into the behavior of a person and how do you make sure that those behaviors align with the behaviors you're looking for?

Ryan Englin
So I personally, as a small business owner, would take an employee that doesn't have the skillset but has the right buy behaviors any day. And that's one of the things we teach. You can teach someone to well, you can teach someone to work safely. You can teach someone how to lift or how to use tools. What you can't teach them to do is how to get to work on time.

Ryan Englin
Teach them to do is how to actually care about not wasting supplies. You can't teach those things like that stuff is so much harder to teach. So what we want to do in the interview process is focus on the things we can't teach. Too many interviews these days are focused on can you do the job? And what we need to do is shift the way we think about interviews, focus more on behaviors and not say can they do the job, is do they want to do the job?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it.

Ryan Englin
Is this a different approach to interviewing you?

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're really you're hiring for fit, not for the skills.

Ryan Englin
Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's some debate on whether or not you should be doing that and how far you take it. You know, if I'm looking for someone that needs to have three to five years of experience and the skills to do the job, I can't ignore that. So it's not like an either or. You do have to make sure you balance it out. But I tell people all the time, hire for cultural fit first and then figure out where to plug them in later.

Ryan Englin
So we've actually had clients that we're looking for, say, a craft worker, you know, someone that that had the skills they were skilled labor. Maybe they'd gotten some certifications and they brought them in and they're like, oh, my gosh, you were such an amazing fit, but you don't quite have enough experience for us. So we're actually going to put you in this different role because we don't want to lose you. We want you on our team.

Ryan Englin
We just don't want you in that position today. And so we see that happen a lot. If you focus on that culture fit first, you can find the people that you're willing to invest in because they're willing to invest in you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So do they need to focus more on if you're trying to hire for fit? Are you asking more like hypothetical questions like how would you handle this specific situation to try and dig in to where their values are and just their behavior? How do you do that?

Ryan Englin
Yeah, so we're going to focus more on behavioral and process-based questions. And some of these processes, we may not even ask a question. We may just plant a seed and see how they respond. So, for example, one of my clients actually believes that ten minutes early is on time and on time is late.

Ryan Englin
And so for him, we actually beat that up in the job ad a lot. We actually make sure we mention that multiple times in the job ad that 10 minutes is early on time is late. And then when we book the appointment, you know, hey, the interviews at nine o'clock, our expectation is, is that they're there early.

Ryan Englin
Because of that, we know that they're going to align to our value system or the owners value system and the people that show up at nine o'clock right on time, we start to question, are they the right people for us? Yeah, and we'll know, did they read the job ad? And I just talked to a business owner the other day. And for him, he was telling me, you know, he gets phone calls in the morning. You know, the shift starts at 7:00. It's a phone call at six fifty five. My car won't start. I'm not going to make it today. So what do you mean your car won't start?

Ryan Englin
Well, my car broke down last night. Why didn't you call me last night. So this is the stuff that we have to focus on when we're interviewing people. We have to make sure that we're addressing these issues because these aren't the issues to solve in the first three weeks on the job.

Ryan Englin
We do process-based interviewing and we do behavioral question based interviewing. So for some of the behavioral questions, we'll want to know, how do you handle leadership? How do you deal with someone disagreeing with you? How do you deal with conflict on the job site? What if you see someone doing something they're not supposed to be doing? What are you going to do? And we address those questions. Another real simple tool out there that I'll share because everybody gets excited about this is an integrity test.

Ryan Englin
So there are assessments you can give people, they are online, they take about seven to 10 minutes for the applicant to take and it will tell you with a ninety four percent accuracy, their likelihood to lie, to steal, to cause workplace violence or do drugs or alcohol on the job.

Ryan Englin
And these integrity assessments can really be a game changer for the quality of people, because what you'll find is a lot of job seekers will just be like, I'm not taking that because I know I'm not going to pass. And then you'll find some take it that you thought were great because they could talk the talk and walk the walk. But they think it's OK to go drink on the job. Yeah, they're using heavy equipment, you know.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So with interviewing more behavioral process-based questions, it also sounds like you like depending on the business, some type of test or multiple tests to help them evaluate that candidate outside of just the interview process.

Ryan Englin
Yeah. Pre-hire assessments or something that you typically only see in large organizations, because for a lot of them, you have to have someone with the training and the education to be able to interpret the information.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got you.

Ryan Englin
Because there's been such a push to online applications, there are a lot of assessment companies that have come out for small business owners. And so you can send an assessment to someone as part of the interview process. And what you'll find is probably less than 50 percent of the people actually take the assessment. So that just scrubs another 50 percent of the job seekers out that you had to look at. They'll actually tell you this isn't A quality.

Ryan Englin
This is a B quality. This is C quality. And then so you can further filter and say, hey, I'm just going to focus my time on the people that pass. And are that A quality.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you like any or recommend any of the personality assessments that are out there DISC, Enneagram, or anything like that? Do you use those when you work with clients?

Ryan Englin
We use one called Pro Scan, and it's not something that you can just go get on your own. You have to go through someone who certified the certification to understand how to use Pro Scan. A lot of those assessments are all built on the same foundation in personality. And so if you have one in your organization that you like, keep using it, but learn how to use it beyond the hiring decision. Yes, what I recommend we do with our pro scan assessment, so we use them in figuring out who the right person is. Remember the whole example of fishing, right?

Ryan Englin
We actually do what we call a job scan, and most of these assessment platforms have something similar where we get with leaders and say, how do you want them to behave and think? And then it comes back and says, here's the personality profile for this position. And so we're able to use that there. And then what we do is as you get to your top three, let's say you're having a tough time making a decision. You can run the assessments at that point and then that can help you figure out is this the right person for the position I'm looking for.

Ryan Englin
But beyond that, where I think most people fail to get the most value out of it is now that you have this behavioral assessment, this personality assessment, using it as part of the team building function, which is a whole nother show do.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. Yes, we absolutely could.

Ryan Englin
I just want to put that out there. If you're going to use personality assessments as part of your hiring process, don't let it stop there. Make sure you get the ultimate value out of in teaching people how to better communicate, build a team, build trust, because there are a lot of things you can do there, because the truth is, if you have a great system for hiring people, but you're losing them because you don't have a system for retaining them, don't really fix the problem.

Ryan Englin
Unfortunately, you have to think about it both. But what we found is that if you have a really solid system for hiring and you're hiring around culture fit, you'll fix about 60 percent of your retention issues.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Love it, Ryan, you've shared some serious value here, so I appreciate it. I've picked up a bunch of stuff, so thank you. And I know our audience will pick that up as well. Where can people learn more about you? Because obviously, if they need to hire people better, people faster. I know what you're doing.

Ryan Englin
I'm a marketing guy, so I'm easy guy to find. The company website is thecorematters.com. You see it there on the screen right now. What I'd love to do is invite anybody to go to that website. And the book I had mentioned, Unmasked, is about how to hire the people that you won't want to fire. It's all about the behavioral interview process. You can actually purchase it on Amazon or I've got it free download in exchange for an email address.

Ryan Englin
Peace of cake. Easy to get. You'll get the download. And because I know that I work with crazy busy business owners, something like 60 pages. So it's a lot of information packed into a small book. But I wanted to make sure that it was something that you would want to read and actually get through.

Tim Fitzpatrick
We'll take advantage of that, please. It'll indoctrinate you into what Ryan does and how he can help. And please reach out to him, because this is my second or third conversation with Ryan, and I know he knows what he's talking about. So thank you for taking the time. Thank you for being here. Everybody else just like to say thank you for tuning in again. I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing. If you want to gain clarity on where to focus your marketing efforts right now, hop on over to our website rialtomarketing.com. That's R-I-A-L-T-O marketing.com. Just click on and get a free consult button. Guarantee you get a ton of value from that call and walk away knowing what next steps you need to take. Remember, marketing shouldn't be difficult. All you need is the right plan. Till next time, take care.


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About the Author Tim Fitzpatrick

Tim Fitzpatrick is the President of Rialto Marketing. At Rialto Marketing, we help service businesses simplify marketing so they can grow with less stress. We do this by creating and implementing a plan to communicate the right message to the right people. Marketing shouldn't be difficult. All you need is the RIGHT plan.

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