How To Start Building Growth Momentum

How To Start Building Growth Momentum

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a Revenue Acceleration Series interview, where we talk to seven-figure B2B business owners and their growth-focused executives who are actively trying to grow their businesses and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Hi, I'm Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe marketing shouldn't be difficult, and it definitely shouldn't be guess work. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in today. I am super excited to have Alec Juda from K&E Consulting with me today. Alec, welcome, and thanks for being here.

Alec Juda
Tim, thanks for having me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Of course, man. I'm excited to dig into this with you. I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions to get things kicked off. Are you ready to jump in?

Alec Juda
Yes, sir. Let's do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, man. So very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Alec Juda
I am the VP of Growth at K&E Consulting. Consulting and wanted to wait until January to have this conversation because it's been one year. It's a one year roll.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. Congratulations, man. That's the first big milestone, right?

Alec Juda
You learn a lot in the first year, that's for sure.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So that leads into my next question. What's the most important thing you've learned over the last year?

Alec Juda
I think it's important to detach. If you take a loss in Q1, you need to pick your self up for Q2, and you can't be attached to certain strategies and outcomes. We know our ideal outcome, but you don't want it to affect when you leave to go home. You want to be able to come back fresh the next day. An example could be-

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's interesting because there's so many...

Alec Juda
Oh, yeah. I was just going to say an example could even just be with as simple as cold calling. We know that cold outreach is important. You could spend a whole month trying to get a perfect script, and then you finish it and you make a couple of cold calls and you realize, I need to edit the script that I've been working on, and you just lost a whole month. I think it's important to detach to just the outcome sometimes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I found, one, having a bias towards action is a good thing because as we take action, we learn from it. But like you said, when I think of detaching from the outcome, I think about focusing on the things that I can control because there's so many things beyond our control. And so taking action and focusing on those things we can control and then learning from that and then adjusting, I think makes a really huge difference.

Alec Juda
Absolutely. And not to say that the outcome is not It's not important. We know it's important. You hit the nail with the hammer on that one. Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Look, we know growing a business is hard. You've learned a lot in the last year. Do you have any mantra or something, motivational that you say to yourself or share with team members to push through those times?

Alec Juda
I have a whole folder of different quotes that I have written down over the past decade, actually, that I can refer back to. But something lately that has stuck in my head is from Josh Braun, who is a sales trainer. I work with a couple of different trainers. I'm doing his training right now. And it says, I'm going to reach out to people that might have a problem. Some will be open to talking, some won't. Either way, it's okay. And the basis of that is you can't force a vegan to be a meat eater. You need to sell to meateaters. So And that goes back to the detaching of if you have commission breath when you're talking to someone, people know that and they immediately want to back away because they just sense you're only trying to get the meeting. And as a sales professional, that's not the feeling you want your potential client to have, is that you only care about booking a meeting.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No. You know what's interesting, too, Alex? The thing that really stood out to me in that quote was the word might. They might have a problem, right? So many people outreach, making all kinds of assumptions. Even with all of the data that we have access to, you get intent data. You still don't know until you actually have a conversation with that person.

Alec Juda
Yeah, with that, even if they do have a problem, they didn't call you. So clearly-

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, that's right.

Alec Juda
They're doing something to either put a bandaid on it or they're just maybe it takes an extra hour of their time to do it, and they're doing it. Hey, my guys are taking an extra hour to finish the task. Why should I pay you for it? It's not that big of a deal. I think assuming can be your worst enemy because it puts them on their heels where they need to be defensive almost. I try to come in as a place of, may have it, you may not have an issue, but here's a knowledge gap that I see in the industry. And then when you can identify a specific knowledge gap, it gets the wheels turning a little bit.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, the other thing, too, is, look, we all have problems, but we don't address all of those problems either. So just because they have the problem doesn't mean they're going to do anything about it. Maybe it's good enough. Maybe the pain in the case of MSPs, maybe the pain of switching to a new MSP is greater than just staying with an MSP that's doing a fair job, right? We just don't know until we start to have those conversations.

Alec Juda
Absolutely. And there is a shift in thought leaders and decision makers, and it was the fear of missing out, so the FOMO, of not making the right decision quick enough, to now the fear of messing up. AI is a great example. I think in 2025 or 2024, there is about 2,000 different AI agents. Then in 2025, there's about 1,200. They're getting better and the winners are winning. And that's why you see a difference in the number of agents and where we are today. But that being said, when there's so many options, people don't know what to do and they don't want to mess up. So they're just going to wait it out most of the time.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, it's interesting you bring up AI, Alex, because I was just having this conversation before we started recording with somebody else. So you said there's 2,500 agents, now there's 1,200-ish, right? There's so many people jumping into the AI market. Most of these tools are not going to be here in the next five years. And so, like you said, you have to be very careful about where you're to hit your wagons when it comes to AI, specifically. Because a lot of people are just trying to ride the coattails of this wave, and they're not going to make it. And so we've got to pick the right tools.

Alec Juda
And consumers, the last stat I've heard on this is when someone is making a big purchase, about 80 % of the research they've already done on their own. So they're Almost looking for a confirmation bias on them making the right decision. So sales in today's day and age, they have all the information. You need to come in as a consultant, right, on why it works for them. But then having your own integrity to say, Hey, I actually don't think that we're a good fit right now, and here's why. And from that, you're going to gain a lot of respect. And I can almost guarantee down the road, they'll either come back or recommend somebody else.

Understanding What Makes a Business Unique

Tim Fitzpatrick
So let's dig in. So it's been a year. When you initially stepped into K&E, there was no CRM, no pipeline, no active lead flow. What were the first three moves you made to try and start creating momentum? And how did you decide what to do first and where you're going to pause and what to ignore? Because that's a really difficult thing to do.

Alec Juda
Yes. So the great thing was we had so low churn because we're great at what we do when it comes to cyber security, tech help, the whole nine yards on that front. But never have any marketing or sales was great because it's fresh for me and it's good to start from scratch, except it takes time and there's a lot of learning involved. Before a go-to-market strategy was in place, I really needed to understand what made K&E unique. Why did our clients decide to stay with us for, some of them, 20 years? I mean, that's huge. Really, that was tied to understanding what makes their business unique and how that relates to us, how we can handle some businesses that may be a little bit different, so to say. Understanding, how did we get our current clients? Was it all referral-based? Did it come from a friend's family member? Where did they actually come from? And then what the market looked like for Minneapolis-based outsourced IT? Are they having call centers overseas? Are they handling it in-house? Do they just pick up the phone and say, I'm going to write you a ticket, I'll call you back? So before I really jumped in in a go-to-market strategy, I think it was really, really important to diagnose because I can't create something if I'm not reading all the directions, if you're making a cake, right? You need to make sure you have all the things in place before you turn the oven on, essentially, would be my food analogy of the day.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. So I want to pull some things out because the way you approach this is the exact same way that we approach it when we work with clients on the marketing side. You took the time to first assess, where are we at? And once you understand where you're at, then you can start to diagnose where are the problems and then where are the opportunities. But without knowing where you're at, you can't create a plan to get where you want to go. So I love the fact that, hey, let's just take a step back. And we got great retention. Where did these... How did we actually get these clients? When you said success leaves clues. You've already been successful. So let's look at where we got these clients. Can we do more of that?

Alec Juda
And to add on to that, and with that diagnosis, it was really important to see what did K&E think sales was. They've never had a sales professional before. In their mind, what do you think a salesperson does on a day to day? And what's important to you as another leader? I connected with the leadership team. I connected to even help desk, people picking the phone. Because at the end of the day, growth and new revenue coming to our company is going to affect everybody, and everyone's job is going to change differently. Someone who's picking up the phone, the more customers calling, their job is going to be altered in a way. Because there's going to be more tickets, more phone calls. What's the benefit of having this sales guy? Making sure that there's a buy-in across the team, I think, is really important across all levels, especially in a leadership role where I do have a chance to affect strategy and how we interact with our current clients and the direction of the business, I really wanted to diagnose what was important to everybody. When you do come into a new business that hasn't done A business was old, but a new strategy for an old business that hasn't done it before, I really needed to pause trying to fix everything immediately. Because from an outsider, you're coming in and you're seeing all the room for improvement, especially from my background coming from such a large company, PepsiCo, you're able to see things that could be improved. It was really important for me to not get derailed from my initial goal of diagnosis to just immediately getting sidetracked to try to fix something right away, but to take that outside approach and consult with the team on what's important to them before moving forward with a go-to-market strategy.

Meeting With Current Clients

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. There's never a shortage of opportunities. So being able to take a step back and look at, hey, what should the priorities be? Because what you choose not to do is just as important as what you choose to do. And we can't focus on everything all at once. One of the things that I know you focused on first, which I love, and one I want to dig into this now a little bit, is you met with existing clients, right? To listen first, then walk me through just that process and how you thought about it.

Alec Juda
So there is two different strategies that I initially started. One was called voice of the customer, and one was a lighthouse strategy. Now, voice of the the opener came first. The goal was essentially to understand what we're doing well with our long-standing clients that did like us and interact with us quite frequently. The opener was personal, trying to be flexible with just different meeting options, a clear and upfront ask with a time commitment on, Hey, I'm new to Kanye, and here's what I'm trying to do and why it will help you in the long run. If we're doing something good, I want to 10X what we're doing good to make that we do serve you better. Everyone I did reach out to, they did answer. And of course, depending on the role, the time commitment was different. Some was a team's meeting and others, we went out to lunch. I did find that when I initially stuck to a script of very detailed questions, it just felt unnatural. And the answers that they gave me seemed that they were trying to give me an answer that I wanted to hear of, Oh, I know he's reading from his list of questions, so I want to give him something that he can take back to the team to put a big sticker and a big star on it that, Hey, Alex did a good job with these questions. I wanted that brutally honest feedback. I just ditched the script and was able to talk about their kids, what they do on the weekends to get to know them as a person, too, outside of work. And then sometimes after talking, I realized that they weren't really the right fit to ask for a referral because at the voice of the customer, the goal, of course, was to make sure we see what we are doing to get some real feedback. But also, if they do love us, would they be open to giving us a referral? And depending on how the conversation was going, sometimes I realized, I don't know if I want to ask for a referral from this person, either They felt uncomfortable or I felt uncomfortable. If an ask felt uncomfortable, then I don't think it's the right thing to do.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's read the room.

Alec Juda
I still make the ask. But when I was able to leverage an ask, I came prepared. I did my research, went on their LinkedIn or got in touch with their social circles and found who would be a potential ideal customer for us at K&E, and I would make that ask on, Hey, we're thinking about working with this person, this person, and I would let them know, I did see you were connected on LinkedIn. Would you be okay with that introduction? Every time, they were totally okay with the introduction, and it was a good way to just start to build trust. Sometimes they weren't. Sometimes they would say, You know what, Alec? I don't know if it's the best fit for K&E to be working with them, even though I thought it was. And at the same time, sometimes they said, Let me talk to them first, which is the Minnesota nice way of saying, No, thank you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. This process that you went through is very similar to the process that we follow and we recommend our clients in doing client interviews, You need to talk to your ideal clients, not just once, but on a at least somewhat regular basis to capture this information. And one of the things, dude, there's no substitute for face to face. One of the things that we have found really valuable when doing this is when we do it virtually recording. You're recording because then you can get transcriptions. And those transcriptions from those calls, it's gold. There's so much good information that is in there. And now with AI, you can leverage those transcriptions, pop it into AI, have it analyze that data and pull out themes, messaging. What have you missed? What are you doing well? All of those things. There is so much value in that process that you went through. And so I appreciate you sharing that because it did It really did help you kickstart what you were going to do next.

Alec Juda
Yes. And you bring up a really good point on there's pros and cons for virtual as well as over lunch. And there are definitely high value contacts and low-value contacts, and I say that as nice as possible. But depending on respecting each other's time, it may be It's better just to do virtual. But if it is a very high level contact that you want to have a long standing relationship with, in my opinion, you probably should go get a nice lunch or a nice dinner in the evening. And when I I do, because I don't have a note taker, is when I get back in my car, I take my phone and I hit record, and then I list all the things on the top of my mind. So that way I can just brain dump into something as quickly as possible to go over the things he or she have said and what's important to them. Any time I did make an ask, it was never the same either, but it had the same idea. We value your partnership and we are looking to grow. Could you help me get introduced to this person? Short, sweet, to the point, which then, depending on if it was more of a high value contact, so to say, they moved to the next level, which is the Lighthouse strategy. And that strategy was It was similar, but it was essentially referrals on your whole customer database. Referrals typically come from a select few. It may be 10, it may be 20, it may be 50, depending on how many clients you have. But majority of referrals come from a lighthouse, someone who's pointing the way to K&E. That being said, they need to know you, they need to like you, and they need to trust What does that mean to you? When you have founder-led sales, that needs to get transitioned to a grown company to other people on the team. So yes, they may like the owner, but what happens when the owner retires or the owner steps away, is not involved with the sales process anymore. That's when they need to like K&E as a whole and not just be referring based on one person. So with the Lighthouse strategy, it was one in the same, but a little bit more commitment on, Hey, if They are a member at a club downtown, you should probably join. And guess what? You're going to be really into racquetball because they have racquetball. So I think it's a unique way to be always everywhere. And that was a term that was used when I was working for Frida Lea, is you want to be where the right people are. And if that means going to a finance conference, then you should probably be at a finance conference to see what they're listening to, what their triggers are, and where they're saying their problems are in a setting that you're not selling, but you're actually learning. Then when you do have that, you're building the relationship, and you can talk the talk that resonates with them. You're not making the ask of, Hey, how are we doing? But more so you're building that relationship with the person giving you referrals. And then when you do have that relationship built, you can slow down and you can say, Hey, Hey, I need a really big favor. And what I have done is I had an Excel sheet and I met with the Lighthouse and I said, I have 50 names here. Can you go through this with me and Tell me what would be a good fit. We spend an hour going through an Excel saying, This is good, this is good, this is not good. Don't reach out to them. Haven't talked to this person, so on, so forth. Of course, reward them greatly. Buy them their favorite bottle of wine, take them to a nice steak dinner, give them a gift card for their family to do something. But having that real insight, I think, is critical. And as a sales professional, our job is to ask. We cannot be afraid to go the extra step and go out on a limb and say, Hey, I need some help. You've referred us in the past. We've talked about it. I know what your pain points are. I think we can help a lot of people in your network. Here's what I'm thinking. And of course, you make sure you get the permission before doing it. But people are eager to help, especially if you're a small to medium-sized business, they want to see you grow.

Building a Relationship with Competitors

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to shift gears and talk about competitors a little bit. You brokered a a unique arrangement with a competitor to take the prospects that they had disqualified. How did you, one, how did you think about this. And then how did you go about this? Just walk us through it a little bit, because I think a lot of people, especially if we're coming from a scarcity mindset, we don't want to talk to competitors. But if we're coming from a place of abundance, it's like, Hey, there's plenty to learn from competitors. There's plenty of business out there. I should be talking to my competitors. So just share with us your thoughts here and what you did.

Alec Juda
When I first started at K&E, of course, I talked about interacting with current clients. But when you want to grow and you want to grow fast, you really need to do some outreach and get into the market, especially with no marketing and a very tight, consolidated client base. So I really wanted to see what the Minneapolis networking scene was like. So over the last year, I would attend about three networking events a week, and I found that my competitors were everywhere. When I was working for PepsiCo and I was looking for Pepsi beverages, when I saw a Coca-Cola gentleman, I was upset. I was like, Why are they in my space? Don't like Coca-Cola. Keep that away from me. Then that was my mindset originally. I went to a chamber of commerce event and I saw another VP of sales at an MSP, and we were talking, and then he said, Hey, let's grab a beer after this event. I was like, Yeah, that's right. We can do that. It's not like Pepsi, Coca-Cola. It's okay. When we grabbed the beer, I was able to sit down and talk with someone who's been doing it longer than me. I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast that I've been doing this for a year. So I'm learning a lot, but I need to learn a lot more. And if I can set my ego aside, our competitors has a lot to teach us, whether it's about the market, about their clients, what they're doing well and what they're not doing well. If you listen, people talk to you and they say things that can actually help you. So I realized I wanted to learn. That being said, the next time I went to a networking event and I saw a competitor, I started talking to a gentleman who was working at a larger manage service provider that was very rigid in what they were doing. We got lunch a couple of times, and we were just talking about the industry. I was very open on, Hey, I'm looking to learn and grow with my skill set as he's been doing it for about 25 years. While that relationship grew, we developed some friendship. When there was a client that they were unable to service, it went to me. Now, having a referral with a competitor is unique. Part of the reason why we were able to take the referrals that they couldn't have wasn't because he didn't want to sell to them. It was because he couldn't. Because a lot of these larger managed service providers are so rigid with what they can provide. If you don't hit that checkmark on every single aspect, they don't want to service them.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's not a good.

Alec Juda
K&E is very boutique in the way that we can be a la carte. If someone wanted on-site support, we can offer that along with this tool here and this tool here, but maybe not this over here. When he was able to understand our uniques, it was a win for him, too, because he was able to give the client that he couldn't support to us. That built credibility with him in the future. We because we got a new client. Then he was able to help someone that he was friends with. At the same time, the client was happy. What I came out with that realizing is people still do want to help others. So definitely don't have such a big ego, be open to learn. I try to do the same when it fits. And sometimes it doesn't always fit either. And a partnership can be different and unique. So having an eye and an ear open to new things can be helpful. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You took the time to listen and build that relationship. And if we're listening, opportunities can come to the surface, right? And in this particular case, it's almost like, oh, yeah. So it seems like you guys have pretty rigid requirements for the clients you work with. What do you do with clients that aren't a good fit, right? And hear the answer to that. And then it's like, well, gosh, maybe there is an opportunity for us to partner or refer each other, right? But we have to take the time and be open-minded enough to have those conversations. And one of the other things that you pointed out that I think is key is you didn't just meet with this person once, right? Because the more you meet with them and the more you get to know them, other things come to the surface, right? We're not going to be able to turn over every stone in one conversation.

Alec Juda
Absolutely. And there's an element of humanity in having a conversation where you are dropping your guard a little bit. And I feel that when someone opens up that or if I open up, then they're willing to open up and vice versa. And it's okay to be vulnerable within reason on what you're comfortable sharing. So coming in with the mindset of, here are some nos that I just know I can't talk about, but here are some really cool things that I think could help someone else, because, quite frankly, there is so much competition. There is a lot of... Everyone thinks they're unique. Let me say that. And we are unique in our own way, just like how they're unique in their own way. And I think if you have a business model that is so sensitive that you're unwilling to talk to your competitor, so to say, what do you think your customer is going to do? They're going to get multiple proposals. You need to be confident and strong in your strategy and how you handle your clients where, yeah, I can talk to as many competitors as I need to, to one, do some market research, and two, because I know how good we are. That being said, not advocating for disclosing trade secrets at all, but being smart about it.

Balancing Strategy and Planning

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, totally get it. So I know right now at K&E, it's you. You're the solo growth team. How do you balance everything? How do you balance strategy and planning and just everything day to day? Any tips on that?

Alec Juda
Yes. I would say it's important to consistent for at least six to eight weeks before you do change your strategy. It's hard to start something and then want to jump to something else because you can immediately see, Hey, I'm so attached to this outcome right now. This strategy isn't working. I'm going to scrap it and go to this thing I saw on YouTube, or this trainer brought this up and it's wonderful, and I need to try this right away. So I would say staying consistent for at least 6-8 weeks before not changing anything. That being said, if there's a red alert, of course, be smart about it and change your strategy when needed. But then you need to plan month to month, whether that's networking events, going to different associations, or just business-related happy hours. However, a client meeting always comes first. Structure your calendar monthly and then be flexible with your clients. I have heard sales professionals I only meet with clients on Tuesday or Thursdays. If they can't meet on those times, then I don't want to talk to them. I don't agree with that strategy. Life is crazy for me. Life is also crazy for them. People can be flexible and so can you. Then for just... Overall, sometimes it's okay to stay home from a networking event or an association, association event or just outbound research. Yes, I made cold when I wasn't feeling it. Yes, I'd been to networking events when I wasn't feeling it. And it turned out good sometimes. But other times you need to listen to yourself and say, am I going to be an asshole at this event and not do well? And then no one's going to want to talk to me because I'm walking around not wanting to talk to someone else. So I think it's important, too, to listen to yourself when it makes sense. And then just for day to day leadership, I think it's really, really important to be receptive to what you are hearing in the office. Sometimes an employee needs to be taken out to lunch. Other times it's a pep talk, and other times it's a kudos. You're doing a great job. Here's a gift card. And then most importantly, What I found out is people want to be heard. So, hey, how do you think things are? Just very open-ended questions. How do you think things are going? What would you do to change this aspect to get their perspective? And then I would say, yes, you want to do it for 6-8 weeks and then try something new. Then if you're in the market and networking, ask what they're doing for their strategies. Then you can have a list of what you want to try next. And then when one get up and running, it's easy to start the other because this takes 20% of your time now that it's rocking and rolling, so to say.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
I'll add to that, and thank you for sharing that because we have to give sales and marketing tactics time. Too many people give up before they should or chase shiny objects. And when we're chasing shiny objects and just going from one thing to the next, you never gain traction anywhere. And so especially on the marketing side, certain things take time. So when we look at planning, we look at 90-day sprints. We need to give things enough time to be able to gather enough data to be able to look at it and go, is this working? Is it heading in the right direction? What are the signs telling us? And from there, we can then choose, do we need to adjust course a little bit? Do we need to make some adjustments? Or do we need to scrap it? But we got to give it enough time, which is so, so important. So thank you for for sharing that. Before we wrap up, Alex, I want to ask you one last question, which is knowing what you know now, is there anything you would do differently?

Alec Juda
Yes. I would say that it's okay to change your strategy sooner. And what I mean by that is, and this is from my own experience, I was very heavily focused on networking, and I explained that. And yes, there is good that comes with that. But that is a slower strategy that takes years to build up. So if you need growth fast, start a strategy, make sure it's up and running, and then don't be attached to it. Keep it running if it's working well, and then pivot to something different. So I would say the biggest thing would be to diversify your outreach as soon as possible and then get as much training as possible. So in your free time, I'm looking at YouTube videos, or spend the money to invest in yourself by buying a course to help make sure that you're up to date on the market, the industry, and then just techniques. Diversifying your outreach and then spending the time to get training for yourself.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. Alex, I appreciate you taking the time, man. Where can people connect with you and learn more about K&E?

Alec Juda
Yeah, k&econsulting.com. And then LinkedIn Alec James Juda would love to connect.

Alec Juda
Cool. We will make sure that we get that in the show notes as well. If you like this interview, go connect with Alec. Check out K&E. Appreciate you taking the time, man. I appreciate those of you that are watching and listening as well. If you want to connect with us, you can do that over at rialtomarketing.com. That's .rialtomarketing.com The other resource we've got for you is over at marketingenginescorecard.com. If you want to get an idea of where your marketing engine is strong and where you have gaps and what to focus on next, head on over there. It takes less than two minutes. You'll get a customized report. So take advantage of it, marketingenginescorecard.com. And until next time, take care.