Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience.
Join Tim Fitzpatrick and Josh Varner for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!
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Keep Moving Forward
Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate growth and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am really excited to have with me Josh Varner from IT Assurance. Josh, welcome and thanks for being here with me.
Josh Varner
Thank you. It's my pleasure.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I'm excited to dig into this with you. Before we jump into the heart of the interview today, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions to help us get going. You ready to jump in with both feet?
Josh Varner
Yeah, let's do it.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. So very quickly, what do you do and how long have you been doing it?
Josh Varner
Yeah. So we do third party IT outsourcing. So the easiest way I can explain it is you hire us to come in to a size of company that couldn't afford their own IT staff, and we come in and take care of all your IT needs. I've been doing it for about three years, but the business has been around since 2008. As a whole, company has been doing it a long time. But yeah, I've been doing it the last three years and having a blast.
Tim Fitzpatrick
What's the most important lesson you've learned in the last three years?
Josh Varner
I think the biggest lesson I've learned is humility. You got to have some humility with what you're doing. You can't know everything as much as you'd like to believe that you know everything you really don't. Being vulnerable with your team and saying, Hey, I don't know the answer. I think the best answer is going to come from everybody and not just me. I think it's a really important lesson that I've learned over the years.
Tim Fitzpatrick
I can't remember who I heard this from, but it was from an interview I did within the last six to nine months, she was talking about as business owners, we can see people and just think, Oh, my gosh. They have totally dialed in. She was like, Forget it. Nobody's got it all figured out. We need to know that no matter how great somebody looks, nobody's got it figured out. We're all just people. So I love that, man. Just taking that, being humble and just knowing, Hey, man, I'm learning something new every day. So I really love that and I appreciate you sharing that. Now, we also know on the flip side, growing a business hard. There can be a lot of success, but there can also be a lot of roadblocks. I'm curious, do you have any mantra or motivational saying, something that you say to yourself or share with your team to help push through those times when it is tough?
Josh Varner
Yeah, I do. It actually comes back to one of my favorite quotes. I'm a father of three, and we watched a lot of Disney movies growing up. And one of my favorite quotes I've ever heard of all time is keep moving forward. And it's something that Walt Disney came up with. And there's a bit more to the whole quote, but driving around curiosity and such. But those three magical words, keep moving forward. It doesn't matter how great the day was yesterday. It doesn't matter how bad the day was yesterday. If we keep moving forward, we're going to get to the next step. We're going to get to the next place. We're going to get to the next day. And I share that a lot with my team. That quick little mantra of, yes, today was a bad day, but tomorrow, if we keep moving forward, tomorrow can be that next great day.
Tim Fitzpatrick
One of my favorite books I read a long time ago is The Slight Edge by Jeff Olsen. Have you ever heard of that book?
Josh Varner
I haven't.
Tim Fitzpatrick
It's very similar. I love that keep moving forward. In the book, he talks a lot about just those seemingly small things that we do each day can either lead to success or lead to failure, but they don't seem all that important. I think it's just really similar to just keep moving forward. Man, focus on those little things that you can do each and every day and just keep doing them. Keep doing them. Because it's so easy to become overwhelmed. As a CEO, as a business owner, there's so many different things we want to do, so many things we can do, and it's really easy to get overwhelmed.
Josh Varner
Yeah, 100 %. Super easy to get overwhelmed. It actually reminds me of a commencement speech I watched that a general gave talking about part of the reason that you make your bed every day in the military is so that at the beginning of the day, you can start off with a success. Those successes build upon each other And then even if you had a horrible day, when you get home and you go to crawl into bed, you can go, Oh, I have a nice, neat bed that I get to crawl into. And so you can start the day with a success and end the day with a success. And it's super powerful to think that way.
Tim Fitzpatrick
It's such a small thing, but it's so simple. I remember reading something similarly. It wasn't from the military, but it was in a book I read. And ever since I read that, I've always been pretty good about making my bed. But it's so nice to just be like, you know what? I'm starting the day off right. And no matter what happens, you come back and you got a nice, neat bed to crawl into it. So I love it.
Referrals As A Business Growth Driver
Tim Fitzpatrick
So, Josh, what has been the biggest driver of growth for IT assurance up to this point?
Josh Varner
Yeah, I'd say the biggest driver for us has been referral business. We go in and we help somebody, and that person, we always ask the question, Is there somebody else we should be talking to? Is there somebody else that you can think of that would benefit from our services? And inevitably, we get somebody to introduce us to somebody else, and it might not be that moment. It might be three months down the road, six months down the road. But inevitably, we get that introduction. Or we've built such good relationships over the years with our clients that as people that brought us in originally, they're moving to other companies. And as they move to those other companies and the talk of bringing in an IT provider comes up and they say, Hey, let's call IT Assurance. I know you'll love them. Let's just start off with a chat. And then that gets our foot in the door. And those have been really the two biggest accelerators for us.
Tim Fitzpatrick
So many people, word of mouth referrals are a huge driver. And every time it comes up, I just want to add this because it is a huge driver. But it's very common when we have conversations with potential clients for there to be no system for those to generate referrals. It's like, hey, it just happens. And it is such low hanging fruit there. When we put a plan together, we're always looking for low hanging fruit to get quick results. And what's already working is one of the greatest places to start. And with referrals, it's like, if you have no system, you touched on this, you guys are proactively reaching out. And so we're always talking about, Hey, if you don't have a system, let's put a system in place. When are the best times for you to ask for referrals proactively? And as you continue to keep in touch with clients, past clients, when can you ask again? Once it becomes a system, I would say it's never going to be super predictable. But if you're doing that, you're going to increase the odds that it's going to happen in a more consistent manner. I love the fact that you shared that, that you guys are proactively doing that because we can't expect them to give us referrals. We need to let them know that we want them and make it as easy as possible for them to do it.
Josh Varner
I was amazed when we first started asking for the referrals because there was no real process like you said. We didn't really have that process in place until about a year ago to physically ask for those on a regular cadence. And as soon as we started doing that, people started going, Oh, yeah. I never thought about it before, but yeah, here, have this. And you're like, That's awesome. Thank you so much. But yeah, the reaction you get is, Oh, yeah, I'd be happy to do that for you guys. 100 %. Now, if you're talking to a very disgruntled client, you don't necessarily want to ask, but I've even had some of those after we've fixed big problems that are going on for them where we've asked them afterwards and they're like, Oh, yeah, I'd love to.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Here's a perfect example with IT. Whether you have an internal customer support or support system or outsourced. Gosh, when you guys get a support request and it gets taken care of, there's a perfect example of something that happens in the process where that's a great opportunity to ask for a referral. You've just taken care of something, they're super happy. Hey, do you guys know anybody else that would love to experience this type of service? Great opportunity, right? So just finding those times in the customer journey where it makes the most sense and putting that in place can make a huge difference in referral, which is already working well for most companies.
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Hiring for Culture is a Top Priority
Tim Fitzpatrick
One of the things that you mentioned to me, I had to laugh about this when we first connected, you were like, Hey, every single person on our team gets along well together. And a lot of people might go, Oh, my gosh. No way. That's impossible. Of course, this thing isn't going to last forever. The larger your team gets, the harder that becomes. But I do believe you can's have most of the people that you're working with get along for the most part, right? Yeah. Here's my question. Was this luck or was it by design? And if it was by design, what have you done to get to that?
Josh Varner
Yeah, it's definitely actually by design. The biggest thing that we do is we interview for culture ad. I say culture ad for a specific reason, and that's we want to make sure that the person adds to our culture. It's not a culture fit for us. Us, it's more of do you have something that you can add to our culture? Because we don't want a bunch of Joshes running around in the company. We want a very diverse group of people by design. We are very upfront and honest in our interview process of who we are, what we stand for, what our core values are. And we make sure that that person not only aligns with our core values, but they have something to add to that with themselves as well. And so far, it's worked really well. We've had a couple of instances over the years where we've added the wrong person, like everybody has, and it just hasn't worked out. It wasn't because they weren't a good person. It wasn't because they didn't have something well to add to the company, but just wrong fit for the job. But yeah, even those particular people were the wrong fit for what the position is, they've gotten along so well with everybody because we've made sure that we're interviewing, not just with one person. Everybody always goes through at least two or three interviews to make sure that they have a good idea of what they're stepping into. So it's just as much of an interview process for us as it is for them. And we tell them that. We're very upfront about, you're interviewing us too, because we're not the right fit for everybody.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So it sounds like you guys are really... In the hiring process, you're really leading with culture first. And it doesn't mean that you're neglecting skill sets and do they have what it takes to get the job done? But culture fit, and the ability to add and continually improve your culture is the top priority.
Josh Varner
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you why. It's an old adage of if I have the person with the right attitude, even if they don't have 100 % of the skill set that I need, I can finish teaching them the rest of that skill set. But I can't teach somebody to show up to work on time. I can't teach somebody to constantly look at a process and improve it. Either that's the type of person you are or you're not. And so as long as you have those right qualities that we're looking for in somebody, I can teach the other stuff, but I can't teach the simple things, like I said, show up to work on time.
Tim Fitzpatrick
The other thing, too, if you think about... A lot of people overlook this in the hiring and the recruiting process, but it is an element of marketing. The marketing that you do for your company, potential candidates are looking at that. But on the flip side, the messaging that you use to attract clients, you do the same thing from a recruiting standpoint. And in your messaging, in your job ads, if you're leading with... Everybody talks about the position and what they're looking, this is what you're going to do, and yada yada. Who cares? But if you are talking about in your job post what it's like to work for the company, what your values are, what your mission is, you weed people out. You end up attracting ideal client, ideal employees, just like you would on the flip side with marketing. If your message is right, it attracts ideal clients and eliminates the rest. Because who wants to sort through 100 resumes and then talk to a bunch of people that aren't a good fit. If your job post is right and it's focusing on that culture fit, it's naturally weeding out people that aren't a good fit so that you're talking with people that are going to be a good culture fit. Then in the in the interview process, you can start to refine it and look at, hey, do they have the skill set? Are they checking the other boxes we need to fill that to fill this seat? But it's got so many people overlook culture. A lot of people are talking about it now, a lot more people than they used to. But I still think there are a lot of people overlooking it.
Josh Varner
Yeah, that's been my experience over the years. There's so many places that I have talked to friends that work in different places or in the same industry. I'm talking to other business owners or other CEOs of MSPs. And as we're talking to other managed service providers like ourselves, and we ask the same question, do you guys hire for skill and ability, or are you using culture? And three years ago, a lot of the answers were no, it's all about skill and ability. And now, like you said, I'm finding more and more people are actually looking at the culture fit, and it just makes such a huge difference. I would much rather have everybody come to work every day and be happy to be where they're at than everybody come in and be miserable and be like, Oh, I can't wait till I'm off of work, and I can't wait until I get my next paycheck so that I can find the next job. I want people that want to be here. And if you don't have the right culture, you're never going to be excited. I mean, let's face it, we're all working. Some of us love what we do, but really, a lot of us love coming to work to be with the people that we spend the most time with. I'm spending 40 hours a week around everybody else in the company, and I want to make sure it's around people that I enjoy being around.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, when you hire for culture, too, I think it's a huge driver of retention as well.
Josh Varner
We're one of the few MSPs that have a 0 % turnover with our employees. It's been, gosh, I think going on three years now that we haven't had anybody quit because they're unhappy. We've had somebody come along where they just had a job offer that they just couldn't say no to. But as far as because they're unhappy and they don't want to be here anymore, haven't had a single person in many years.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, which is awesome because if I remember correctly, the single, the most common reason people leave jobs is because of their boss.
Josh Varner
100 %. Yeah.
Mass Automated Outreach as a Roadblock
Tim Fitzpatrick
Josh, I want to switch gears. I want to talk about marketing a little bit. Because obviously marketing sales business dev is a huge driver in growth. You tried automating some specific marketing campaigns via email, LinkedIn. Let's dig into this a little bit. Can you share that experience with us? What did you learn? What were your key takeaways in that?
Josh Varner
Yeah. So with the automation, we tried to personalize it as much as we could when we were doing that automation. But a lot of the problem that we ran into was even though it sounded personalized, and for that specific industry it was, we pushed out thousands of emails and thousands of LinkedIn messages, and we just got near zero response with it. And we continued to try and make it better. We had A/B test. We do this written version, we do this one. And we had a couple of different companies that helped us to write our email threads and to write our LinkedIn threads that we were doing. And they sounded great and engaging, and they just never really hit the right person the right way. I think we had one company out of the thousands that we contacted reply with a positive, Yeah, let's have a next conversation. It never actually amounted to business, but we talked for about 30 days throughout the whole process. But mostly we just got either no replies. We had high open rates, but just no replies because a lot of times you can see what your open rate is like. And we'd have open rates of 40 %, 50 %. So it's not that people weren't engaged enough to open. It just wasn't getting to the right person for it to make a difference.
Tim Fitzpatrick
A lot of times with cold outreach, it's a messaging issue. It's a lack of personalization. We see so much of this now. We can tell when people are doing it at scale or at volume. One of the things I find with B2B professional services, IT being one of them, is for a lot of us, we don't need hundreds upon hundreds of clients. We don't need to do it at scale. I think it's important to understand what you need to get out of it because that is going to dictate how you do it. But with professional services, when you don't need a ton of volume, I am a huge believer in like manual personalized outreach. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't put systems in place and make it easier. You can create templates and then put in your own customer mizations. But when you're speaking specifically to that client and you can show, Hey, look, I spent some time digging into your business, that's a differentiator. Yes. But when the messages are too automated, even though you personalize, because what can you personalize? Company name, the day of the week, the date, whatever. The personalization isn't deep enough to create differentiation. And that's where I think it becomes challenging to fully automate. And hey, look, we all want to automate, right?
Josh Varner
Sure.
Tim Fitzpatrick
I think we just have to realize that there are some things that can't be automated. You just have to take the time to do the work.
Josh Varner
Yeah. And when we first started doing it, it was really at the... It's right in the middle of COVID where there was the big craze to to go completely automated with your email outreach and your LinkedIn outreach. It lasted and worked for some companies for a short period of time. But then everybody experiences the same burnout. Oh, here's another one. Delete. Oh, here's another one. Delete. Oh, here's another one. Delete. And so the only way to really, truly break through that noise, like you're saying, is to get it personalized. And we have a lot more recently, over the last 30, 60 days, we've started doing that. You and I talked about it. It's super pointed, super focused of who we were going to outreach to, why we were going to outreach with them, and doing those targeted referrals where we're like, We've been doing this in your industry and having lots of success. Would you be open to a conversation about us doing this for you as well? We're seeing a lot more responses, positive meetings being set up, and we actually have a deal that hopefully will be closed in the next 7 to 14 days off of doing that. So it makes a huge difference when you're targeted versus not targeted, really.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Targeted. The other thing that we're seeing, too, is in general, it's taking more outreaches to get responses. A lot of people are only reaching out three times, and it's just not enough. I think you have to stay in front of people over 10 times in a lot of cases. Sometimes, frankly, sometimes they're just sitting there seeing how consistent you're going to be. You got to be consistent with it and you got to do it and commit to it. And you touched on this before, just continually tweaking. Where can you make tweaks to refine the process and get it to a place where it's going to work for you? Cold outreach can scale even if it is manually done. It's just going to require people, right? But it can be scaled. So there are ways to do it. I just think if you want to differentiate yourself, you've got to personalize it. So I appreciate you sharing that. And I will also share this. I get so many connection requests on LinkedIn with people that specialize in LinkedIn outreach. I'm sure you do the same. I honestly, I accept almost every one of them because I want to see what they do. Almost every single one of them is doing the exact same thing. It's automated. It's a numbers game. And if they're doing that to you, they are not doing anything different when they work with clients. So you just got to know that that's how they're going to do it. And I think it's limited success at this point with them all like that.
Josh Varner
I do the same thing And it's actually really funny. The thing that I do most often that I really enjoy with it, since I have a background in sales is if I get a personalized one, even if I have zero interest, I will reply and I will say, Hey, that was a great outreach. Thank you for personalizing it. Honestly, I don't have a need for this at the moment, but I will keep you in mind for the future. And the response is like, Oh, hey, thanks so much for replying. I'm like, hey, you took the time to actually personalize this to me. Yeah, of course, I'm going to take the time. But I always see good feedback from doing that with people.
Consistency is Key in Marketing
Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to still talk about marketing a little bit because we know that having a marketing engine is a critical component to consistent growth. And I know that you guys have been working on getting this engine in place. What types of tactics have you tried and what have you learned?
Josh Varner
Yeah. I think the biggest thing that we've learned is a couple of things. One, you have to have a website that actually keeps people's attention as easy to read, gives you an opportunity to take action when you come to the website. We did a big website overhaul about three years ago, and that made a huge difference in... We always had traffic coming to the website from people looking it up on Google and things like that, but nobody was really ever engaging with the company. And now we've gone from zero every, I don't know, maybe once every six months, we would see something. To every month, we have anywhere from one to six inquiries that actually go somewhere that aren't just spam. So we've learned that. And then really the the other one is the hyper personalization. The more personal you can be with your outreach, whether it's cold or whether it's a warm connection, something I do regularly before meeting with a client for the first time, I go up to their LinkedIn and I look for the little nuggets that nobody else is going to talk to them about. Maybe they played baseball at some university, or maybe they're a part of some cool extra curricular activity that I want to comment on. So when we first get on a phone call together, I won't even talk about business. I'll see their huge baseball fan. I'll be like, Hey, what's your favorite baseball team? I see you're a huge baseball fan. And they're always like, How did you see that? I was like, I googled your name and I saw it on Twitter. And they started laughing. They're like, Nobody ever does that stuff anymore. I'm like, I know. And that's the difference between us. We take the time to personalize what we're doing and who we're talking with. And that makes a huge difference, even with those warm connections. Just taking the time to figure out what makes that person tick just a little bit goes miles. And then the other thing is consistency. If you don't do the things consistently, you can't measure your results and you can't make changes to continue to better it. And so we've noticed that when we consistently do a specific type of marketing, we get way better results than if we were inconsistently doing anything.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Josh, I want to add a few things to this because this is awesome stuff. I love the hyper personalization side of it. I interviewed April Broom a while ago, and we talked about creating genuine connection. And man, I have sucked at this because I'm so focused on business. There are times where I don't take that time to really get to know people on a more personal level. But like you touched on, the more you know about them, the easier it is to get to know them and create that connection. But the other thing is it's a hell of a lot easier to keep in touch with them, too, because you're not always following up about some business thing that they may not care about. Hey, how's the Summer Baseball League going? Boom, done. You're staying top of mind, but you're creating connection by really getting to know them. So I love the fact that you shared that. I love the fact you were like, Hey, before our website, you didn't have a clear journey. The message wasn't good, not a good call to action. And the way I view a website is the hub for all of our marketing, whether it's offline or online tactics we're using, people are still going to our website. And if it's difficult to understand, it doesn't have a strong message, a clear call to action. You're not clearly telling them what steps you want them to take. It's not going to convert and you're wasting time and money on tactics. I love that. The other thing I want to add to this, too, is because you guys are focused on a few things. It is so easy to get overwhelmed with marketing because there's so many channels now and so many tactics. And a lot of people just feel like, Oh, my gosh. I have to be in all these places and the reality is we don't. You're far better off going deep in a few tactics than you are spreading yourself too thin. If word of mouth is working, great. Get the system in place and make sure you're optimizing it. Then from there, you can dig into two other, maybe three other things that you're going to go deep in. If you have three or four things that are working well for you, you can have a very successful business. So you don't have to be everywhere. So thank you for sharing what you guys are doing to get your marketing engine rock and rolling.
Conclusion
Tim Fitzpatrick
What are your aspirations for the future? What's next, Josh?
Josh Varner
I think the big next step in this adventure is we're really looking to double in size. And then that's probably where we want to stay for a while. We want to double in the next three years. Really, it's not even money focused or anything like that. We have a stance that we want to be there as an MSP provider for people that get overlooked for positions. We employ a lot of females and transgender or people on the LGBTQ side. Those are people that typically get overlook for IT positions. Our goal to grow while it's to service more people, honestly, it's to give more people the opportunity to work with us and grow and get more people in here to where we can take vacations and feel comfortable taking vacation. And we can have enough people that we can do that without any worries. And we know that there's somebody here to cover and to just continue to grow to be in that safe place. That's the vision that we've had most recently. And we sit down and talk about it annually of how much we want to grow and look at and focus on all those things. But yeah, our biggest next step is double size the business, have twice as many people operating internally, and to be able to provide more of those positions inside of the company to give more people opportunity.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you have 15 ish people now?
Josh Varner
Correct. Yeah.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, cool. Yeah. Because it's interesting that you mentioned just there's one giving more opportunity, but there is a point early on when you're smaller in size where if you can generate a little bit more revenue and hire more people, you have much better redundancy. When you have 8 to 15 people, oftentimes there are still people that you are heavily relying on. I think it was Dan Kennedy who said, One in business is never a good thing. And so when you're too heavily reliant on any one employee or any one lead gen, any one thing, it makes it really difficult. I love that. I think when you get to that 30, you got a fair amount of redundancy there, which is great because it's like you said, it brings more stability. You're not as reliant on any one person. And as a business owner, we don't want to create a job, right? We want to be able to go and leave it and have everything run while we're gone.
Josh Varner
Yes, 100 %. Next week, I think I've shared with you, I'm having carpal tunnel surgery on both my hands next week.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Oh, man.
Josh Varner
So I'm going to be out office for the next two weeks, starting next Wednesday. But interestingly enough, if this had been three years ago when I first started, I would have been like, Oh, my gosh, I'm going to be gone for two weeks? What is going to happen while I'm gone? And we have so many great people in place and a little bit of redundancy at the size that we are at now that I actually feel completely comfortable and confident that while I'm gone for the two weeks, yeah, a bunch of stuff is going to happen, but it's all stuff that I get to come back and read about and go, Oh, cool. This happened. That happened. They took care of that. I'm not going to have to worry about anything while I'm gone.
Tim Fitzpatrick
That's awesome that you're in a position to do that. It's not awesome that you have to have carpal tunnel surgery.
Josh Varner
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Knowing what you know now, anything you do differently?
Josh Varner
100 %. I would have never, ever done the mass email marketing and mass LinkedIn marketing with no actual real personalization. It just doesn't work. And it was that decision to do it because that's what you were seeing everybody else do. And some people were having success, but not enough to really make it worth it. I would definitely do that differently.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, look, man, I'm going to just tell you, from a marketing standpoint, it's all about testing. Most marketing does not work, which is why we got to test until we find those things that do work for us. Although you would do it differently, you did it and you have the experience. You learn from it and you've made tweaks to make it better. And to me, that's what marketing is all about. Josh, it's been great conversation, man. I really appreciate you taking the time. Where can people learn more about IT Assurance, more about you?
Josh Varner
Yeah, LinkedIn. Go to my LinkedIn profile. I accept everybody's connection requests. If you personalize when you comment to me, I will definitely write you back. And then also just the myitassurance.com website. You come out, take a look at the website. There's ways you can get in touch with us through there as well.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. So myitassurance.com, you can go to LinkedIn. His handle is Josh Varner, just like it sounds. So go check out IT Assurance, go connect with Josh. Josh, thank you so much for taking the time, man. I really appreciate it. I've enjoyed chatting with you. Those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you for doing so. Josh shared a lot of the things that have really impacted their growth. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can do that over revenueroadblockscorecard.com, or you can always connect with us over at RialtoMarketing.com, which is RialtoMarketing.com. Be happy to chat with you. Set up a discovery call and help you push through some of those roadblocks that you're having. So thank you again, Josh. Thank you. See you next time. Take care.
Josh Varner
Take care, everyone. Thanks so much.
