Remove Sales Anxiety With This 5 Step Sales Process For Efficiency & Effectiveness

Remove Sales Anxiety With This 5 Step Sales Process For Efficiency & Effectiveness

Tim Fitzpatrick
Are you consistently selling on a daily basis as business owners? We need to or we need to have somebody on our team who is selling every day. If we want to grow, our special guest today is going to share her simple five step sales process to make you efficient and effective. Hi, I'm Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe marketing shouldn't be difficult. All you need is the right plan. I am super excited to have Lisa Hocker with me today. She is from Direct AF Sales. Lisa, thanks so much for taking the time to join me today.

Lisa Hocker
Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. It's nice to switch sides of the mic. I was on your podcast recently. You so gracefully agreed to come on and chat with me today, so I thank you for that. And at the end here, you need to plug your podcast to make sure people go over there and check it out.

Lisa Hocker
Yeah, especially your episode is coming out next week.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. I love it. And we will promote that. I told you, there's so many people that come on podcast and then just don't promote. So again, a very example of doing something very simple that differentiates you from everybody else. So before we jump into sales, want to learn a little bit more about you? What you're doing with Direct AF Sales? I have some rapid fire questions for you. Are you ready to go?

Lisa Hocker
I'm ready. Let's do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. When you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

Lisa Hocker
With my family. Doing whatever.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, that's a common one. And it is a good one. What's your hidden talent?

Lisa Hocker
I can knit . I can knit blankets. Believe it or not.

Tim Fitzpatrick
My mom has always been into that kind of stuff. She knits, what she knits most frequently are little dish rags. It sounds so funny, but it's so nice to get a very fresh, fluffy dish rag.

Lisa Hocker
Really good at taking out the crap at the bottom of the frying pan. Or. Yeah, they're good.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's an awesome hidden town. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Lisa Hocker
Start now, start scared and just try. What's the worst that can happen. Failure is nothing to be afraid of. It's something to be erased because it's through failure that you grow. So the best piece of advice that I've ever gotten was start now just try.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Love it. What's one thing about you that surprises people?

Lisa Hocker
My direct crass sense of humor. The stuff that comes out of my mouth is what a lot of people are thinking, but just don't have the balls to say it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. So you're not afraid to say it?

Lisa Hocker
No.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. What does success mean to you?

Lisa Hocker
Freedom. Choices.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That is a common one. And I totally agree with that. Where is your happy place?

Lisa Hocker
The beach.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Which is why you live in Southern California, right?

Lisa Hocker
It certainly isn't the taxes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, that's right. The taxes and busy and gosh, I don't know. Every year now it seems like half of California is on fire.

Lisa Hocker
Yeah. Well, yeah, it seems like that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's not as bad as the media makes it look, right?

Lisa Hocker
Listen, the media is a business. They're in sales, just like everybody.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes.

Lisa Hocker
They need ratings. They need sponsors. They need money, right. They're business. So they have to do what sells.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So they make us feel like California is all on fire, right? Yes. What qualities do you value in the people that you spend time with?

Lisa Hocker
Honesty, loyalty, integrity.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So tell us more. You have an interesting back story, interesting background. Tell us more about what you used to do, what you're doing now and how you're helping people.

Lisa Hocker
Okay. So I knew in high school that I wanted to be a prosecutor. Okay. So that's really rare when somebody knows what they want to do with their lives at an early age, I find it to be a real rarity. So I knew what I wanted. And I was singularly focused. And I went to law school, graduated, became a prosecutor. I practiced as a prosecutor for five and a half years, and I loved it. Life sort of changed the script a bit, and I switched, and I became the other side of the coin, a criminal defense attorney. So I became a public defender. And that in and of itself is just with such an interesting experience and process. Turns out I love that just as much as being a prosecutor. And I spent 21 years in a courtroom every day, all day. And during the course of those 21 years, I had four children. So I have four sons. They're a little bit less than four years apart. My oldest is now turning 20 in two months. And my youngest, they are turning 16 next month. Very soon.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes.

Lisa Hocker
And as I spent all day every day for 21 years in a courtroom, I lost a big chunk of time with them. So I had the most amazing nannies help me take care of them during the day. And by the time the oldest one got to the first year of high school, I was like, I'm going to miss everything if I don't get my ass home, right? So I started looking around, and the idea of network marketing fell into my lap. I rejected it. I didn't know what it was. I had no experience in sales. Or so I thought, right. Ended up, obviously, I ended up saying yes to the opportunity. And I've been involved in direct selling, network marketing now for four and a half years. I absolutely love it. I had no idea. What I've come to realize is that whatever company you work with in network marketing or direct selling, it's just a vehicle that you get into that you can use to take you to the destination that you want to go. So for me, that destination was to replace my income from law. And now I'm home. I've been home with my kids. I haven't practiced law. I stopped taking cases. I want to say it was 2018. Shut my law practice down. I let my bar license go inactive. California, you have to pay for the privilege of being an inactive attorney, which is not the case in every state. But if they can get a dollar out of you, they're going to here. So that's what I'm doing. Right now, I fulfill my own mission, which is getting home, being present for my family while they're still here. My mission is sort of changed a bit now. Now I want to eliminate the stigma that surrounds multi level marketing companies and network marketing. But more, my mission is to find the people that need what I have and coach them and train them to reach whatever destination or dream they have for their lives. And for some people, it's just a vacation fund. Maybe people want, like, $500 a month or maybe people want an extra thousand dollars a month to tuck away for that emergency that inevitably arises. I mean, I don't know what the percentage of people that couldn't afford to miss payroll for a month, right? People live paycheck to paycheck. It's normal. It's what we've come to. And not having a second stream of income is just insanity to me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And so is that why you started Direct AF Sales?

Lisa Hocker
So that's a great question. So in part, yes. So Direct AF Sales is a company that and again, when I started on the network marketing journey, I had no idea that I would write a book. I had no idea that I would start a company. Early on in my network marketing experience, I learned that not a lot of people understood how to efficiently do this. Do the tasks that are going to move your network marketing business forward. So I needed to create and I was really busy, like, super busy. So I needed to create a really efficient system that would let me get all the things that I needed to get done for my network marketing business really out of the way so that I could go to court, take care of the kids, do the driving the whole thing, all the other stuff in my life that I was trying to ease up. And I came up with a system that I called The Five Daily Steps. Over the years before I wrote the book, I was training people on it, training people on my own team, training people on other teams. And I decided I'm going to write it down. I'm going to put it in a book, and I'm going to put it out there for anybody in network marketing, it doesn't have to be the company that I'm with. The steps are all the same, right. And what I learned in the process was there's enough room for anybody who really wants to do this, whether you're selling leggings or you're selling CBD or you're selling cars or you're selling whatever. There's enough room for everybody who wants it to win. So I have a mindset of abundance. And if I can help somebody, that's a huge win for me. So that's sort of why I started Direct AF Sales.

The Simple 5-step System for Selling

Tim Fitzpatrick
So let's dig into this because you touched on it. You've got this five step system for sales. It's obviously geared towards network marketing, but we can apply these same steps no matter what business we're in. So can you break these down for us?

Lisa Hocker
Yeah. So my first step is and this can be in any network marketing or any affiliate social selling or regular old sales. The first step is you need a master list of the people that you want to talk with.

Tim Fitzpatrick
One of my mentors said, "Success starts with a list."

Lisa Hocker
And it's so true, if you have to waste your time and try to figure out who am I going to reach out to today, I can't figure this out. And then you step away from your business. Organization and is key to being efficient.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How big should this list be?

Lisa Hocker
Over a thousand people at least. And if you think that you don't know that many people just open your Facebook profile, see how many friends you have, go on Instagram, go on LinkedIn. Think about, you know, the people that are not obvious in your life. So here's the biggest mistake I see people making when it comes to step one in creation of their master list is they think that they know people's lives. They think that they know what's actually happening in people's lives. And the truth is, you have no clue what's really going on behind closed doors. None. You don't know who's getting ready to leave their wife or their husband. You have no idea if they are smoke and mirrors and the wealth that they have isn't really there or you think, well, "That stay at home mom has plenty of money. She doesn't need this money. She wouldn't want to hear from me." But the truth is the stay at home mom may be looking for a community outside her family to find her identity again. You know that girl that was in College that had these dreams and aspirations that being a stay at home mom isn't wonderful. I'm enjoying it. My point is, you can't read people's lives. You can't read people's minds and you don't know who needs what. And maybe it isn't that person's dream to replace their income from being a physician. But maybe they want something outside of being a doctor. I can't tell you how many successful women that I personally know who are teachers and nurses and doctors and men, too, who are getting something fulfilled by their network marketing business, that their main business isn't satisfying. Does that make sense?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Makes perfect sense. So we can't assume that we understand them and what they're going through.

Lisa Hocker
Right. And so you're doing your network a disservice by being a secret agent of network marketing. Like, if you think you're not going to talk about it, what you do and you're not going to share the opportunity, you're actually doing a disservice to your network by keeping what you've got in the closet, so to speak.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. So we start with our master list. We got to have a list. The size of that list for network marketing needs to be large. I think depending on what you are selling, that list may need to be smaller, but you got to have a list. You have to know who you intend to, who you're going to outreach to.

Lisa Hocker
Well. And the list is a living, breathing organism. Its constantly. This is not its network marketing, right. You have to expand and grow your network. And thanks to social media, the world is literally at your fingertips.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So what's the second step?

Lisa Hocker
The second step is the most important step. And that is reach out to people in your network on your list, about the gift of the business opportunity that you have. And so, for example, if you're not in network marketing and you're in sales and you're selling a life insurance product, you believe in your product, at least I hope you have the integrity that you're selling something that you believe in. You have to talk to people about what it is you're selling. And when you're in network marketing, you're selling two things. You're selling your product but you're also selling the idea that somebody can start their own entrepreneurial journey.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So with network marketing, you've got two different sides of the coin here. You have, you can be selling the products themselves, but you can also be selling the opportunity of having your own business within a larger business. Right?

Lisa Hocker
Right. Having your own business selling the products.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes.

Lisa Hocker
Right. Exactly.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But so either way. And even if you're not in network marketing, when you're reaching out to people, you are reaching out to find out if you can help them solve a problem that they have.

Lisa Hocker
And that they may not be ready to acknowledge that they have. Does that makes sense?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes.

Lisa Hocker
Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So for what you do, how are you commonly reaching out?

Lisa Hocker
So the way I talk about in my book for anybody in direct selling to reach out is to be extremely direct, direct af.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Lisa Hocker
Right. And say, "Hi, how are you?" You know, "I really love what I'm doing with my network marketing business. This might be a good opportunity for you right now at this time in your life. If I sent you some information about what it is I do, would you take a look at it?" That's it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Lisa Hocker
That's the big, scary reach out. "I think I got something great. It might be good for you." If not that's okay. There's a billion other people to talk to.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Right. Yeah. If it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit.

Lisa Hocker
It's not a good fit. It's not a good fit. And maybe it's not a good fit right now. Or maybe, you know, somebody who needs what I have. This is like not a pressure situation. At least it isn't for me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, we're not talking about. Did you ever see the movie Boiler Room?

Lisa Hocker
No.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Oh, man, I'm trying to remember the guy's name, but they were selling, you know, stocks, and it was the boiler room. They're all in the room calling people, trying to get them to buy these stocks to drive the price of. A really good movie. Awesome sales movie. But what you are talking about is not that.

Lisa Hocker
No.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You're talking to people about a potential opportunity or something that might help them solve a problem that they have. If they're interestedg great. We can continue the conversation. If they are not, that's okay.

Lisa Hocker
That's okay. Yeah. That's how I approach it. That's how I encourage my team to approach it. That's how I talk about it in the book.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's step three?

Lisa Hocker
Step three is follow up, follow up. Follow up, follow up. Follow up about conversation that you might have had with somebody about the business. Follow up with someone about are they enjoying your product? Follow up with did you receive the sample that I sent you? So the biggest mistake that I see with people here is that they are afraid. They are afraid to bug the person that they've sent a sample to of the product, or they're afraid to reach out and talk to the person about whether or not they've made a decision about whether they want to join your team or see if they want to get on a three way call and get more information from somebody that isn't you. You know, another story, another experience. So the average the rule of thumb right now in September of 2021 is it takes an average of twelve points of contact between you and your prospect, your future customer, your future business partner, whatever. It takes an average of twelve touches. So if you have reached back to somebody, let's say I sent you a sample. Right. And I say, "Hey, pal, did you get my sample?" That's point number one. That's my follow up number one. "Hey, pal, did you try the sample?" "No, not yet." "Okay." If you stop at number three or number four, you have done the disservice of not giving your prospect the time and space, and number of contacts that he or she needs in order to reach a decision.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And if I remember the last time I saw this stat, most sales people, I don't even think they make it to, like, three follow ups.

Lisa Hocker
Right. Right. It's insane. I mean, you've got to take your own emotion and your own fear out of the equation and realize that you are, so the product that I sell in my MLM is skincare, okay? It works. I wouldn't be selling something if the product didn't give great results. That's not who I am, right? I believe in the product. I believe in the business. I believe in the business model 150%. So when I'm contacting you for the fifth time about whether or not you're going to join my team or whether or not you've made a decision about do you want to try the product? Do you want to become my customer? I don't think I'm bugging you. I think I'm doing you like a good deed. I think I'm blessing you with the opportunity to become my customer because these products are going to make you feel and look your best. And when you feel amazing and your confidence is that everything in your life improves. So I just wish that I hope that my book can help people understand that this isn't about them and they're not bugging their friends. They are. I mean, there's a way to do it where you're not being an a hole.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Lisa Hocker
I don't know.

Tim Fitzpatrick
We got to create our list. We got to reach out to people. We need to follow up. What's the fourth step?

Lisa Hocker
Send out samples. In my business, I am lucky enough to be able to have samples to send to people. And people like to try before they buy. I get that. There are some companies where you can't sample out. Like, for example, if you sell leggings or athletic wear, you can't cut a piece of legging off. But what you can do is you can get together with them and say, "I've got a couple of pieces here. Would you like to try it on?" Or you have an event where you put out a couple of your things and you say, "Would you like to feel the fabric? Would you like to try this on?" That type of thing. Most companies have a really generous, you know, return policy. I know with my company, it's a 60-day empty bottle money-back guarantee. That's a really good way to try before you buy. Right? You got it. It's like there's a safety net there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. There's risk reversal there. And I know we were talking about this before we went live where I don't care what business you're in, you can have some type of try before you buy. And when we look at the customer journey from a marketing standpoint, one of the phases in the customer journey is try. So if you've got samples, great. But if you don't, there's software companies do free trials so you can get in and start playing with. As a consultant, our try can be, it's a free consult. We do free workshops and master classes. That's a way to help to see and feel what it's like to actually work with us without actually doing so. So there are ways if you're stuck, you just have to get creative. There are tons of ways that you can help people understand what it's going to be like to work with you before they put money out. At the very least, you can have a lower priced offer where people are still going to get value, but they don't have to make a huge commitment. I think that's another way. They are buying, but they're not jumping in with both feet. If that makes sense.

Lisa Hocker
It makes sense to me. Yeah. I think about when a car salesman takes you out for that test drive. That's what the sample is. It's a sample of the opportunity to get behind the wheel and feel it and drive it and experience it and imagine yourself owning that vehicle, right?

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's it. Yes. So we have to have that try sending out samples something. What's the last step?

Lisa Hocker
Social media. And I include in that last step. Obviously, you need to use social media by posting, going live, adding value to your network. But social media also encompasses using that to grow your network. Joining Facebook groups, finding friends in those Facebook groups that you align with. That you have something in common with. Building real relationships online before you introduce the concept of buy my shit or join my team. That's obnoxious. That's where people get your MLMs and direct market sales have really negative, there's this really big cloud of negativity surrounding it because there are bad apples, but there are bad lawyers and there are bad doctors and there are bad journalists, and there are bad marketers. There are bad people in every profession. That doesn't make the entire industry toxic. It just means that there are some really bad actors who have poisoned the well. So I'm here to tell you that network marketing, direct selling, multi-level marketing is not a pyramid scheme. It is not illegal. It is a wonderful way that people can create a life that they want, whatever that looks like for that person, right?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. What we want is it's different for each one of us. One we have to understand what it is exactly that we want. I think a lot of people struggle with that. They're just they don't know. And until you know, you can't figure out what you need to do to get what you want.

Lisa Hocker
And if I can just interject here until you're courageous enough to admit what you want. So when I first started network marketing, I just wanted to earn enough money so that I could come home and take fewer cases. And then that evolved to I don't really want to practice law at all anymore. And that happened. And then it evolved to well, now I want to grow my team in multiple countries, not just the United States, right. And now it's evolving to, well, I want to grow a team of 20,000 people, 30,000 people. So my destination keeps evolving. And some people aren't ready or brave enough to decide what it is they want. I mean, if you don't know where you're going. How is it that you're supposed to have a map? You know, you've got to decide the end destination and then work your way backwards and say, okay, I need to get on this freeway, and then I need to get on this route in this highway so that I can get to where I'm going. If you don't know where you're going, you're just lost.

The Benefits of Gamification

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yep. Totally agree. I want to talk about Gamification. So we've gone through this five step system. But one of the things that you do is gamify this. And I actually interviewed somebody a while back that talked about Gamification from a prospecting standpoint, and I thought it was really interesting. So share with us how you like to gamify it and what's the benefit of doing it.

Lisa Hocker
Okay. So while I was writing this book, I had a power partner. Her name is Bridget Kavanaugh. She's in Montana. She works with the same company that I happen to work with. We're not on the same team, but we believe in collaboration and helping. We don't make each other any money. We just support each other. And we were talking and we talked about the idea of putting the five daily steps on dice, right? And gamifying them. Well, I was like, well, dice has more. So even if we just did one dice, we need one more thing. We have five daily steps. So we looked at the income producing activities, the essential tasks, the critical task that you're in control of. That you need to execute on a daily basis or semi daily basis in order to move your forward every day in order to move your business forward every day towards your goal. So we put twelve action steps that are going to produce results, one on each side of the dice. And that's how the gamification of it came. That's how we came up with it. The idea is that for anybody that's new or anybody that's an OG in the business but is stuck. One of the things that happens is you you want to get back into action, you just don't know where to start and you feel overwhelmed. So the gamification of the income producing activities is designed to reduce the overwhelm, eliminate the overwhelm and increased results. So in the morning, you get up, you see your dice on your nightstand before you go get your morning coffee. Just roll the dice. You're going to get two income-producing activities. Just at some point during the day before you put your head back down on the pillow. That night, execute the two action items, put your business to bed.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And that's it.

Lisa Hocker
And that's it. And so on your nightstand, just rip out a piece of paper out of a notebook, write the date down. And if you execute the two action items that you got on the dice, put a W on your paper for win because you won. That day you work your business, it's going to move forward. You're not going to get the results, just like on a diet. You're not going to salad that day and be at your goal weight. It's just not going to work, right? But you won that day. You didn't cheat on the diet that day. You worked your business that day. Next day, same thing. Roll the dice. Execute the two action items before bed, not even in the next 20 minutes, just at some point throughout the day.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So it gets you in the habit of taking the daily actions you need to take to push your business forward.

Lisa Hocker
It gets you in the habit. It also creates consistency which people struggle with, and it builds confidence. So a lot of people think, "Well, I'm going to get to this really good, motivated place. I'm going to feel really good and then I'm going to work my business because if I'm feeling good, it's going to be great." That's not reality. You have to show up at the gym before you lose the weight. You got to hit the gym. You can't lose the £20 to look good to go to the gym. You just got to get your ass to the gym and work it out. You got to take the action steps without believing in yourself. You've got to work your business without feeling motivated. Your feelings are irrelevant. The shit needs to get done. How you feel shouldn't impact whether or not you want to reach out to somebody and say, "I've got a great business opportunity that might benefit you." What are your feelings have to do with that? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So when you just act and move forward, your confidence and your belief will follow your action, not the other way around. So whether you feel badly or sad or whatever your emotion is that emotions are not to be trusted. They're not real. It's all perception, right? And you're in control of that. Okay, I'm getting off topic. So that's how the gamification of the dice came about. And they do. They create confidence. Habit. You know, a lot of people will just go from zero to 60 when they start something, but then they fizzle out. They fizzle out because it's too much fizzle out because they're not seeing the results they want. This is really systematic and predictable and doable, manageable. Two things a day. Just two things a day.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. You touched on revenue. There's everything on the dice is revenue-generating activities, right? That they need to focus on. The gentleman that I interviewed a while back, a very similar approach. He didn't use dice, but he put points, right. So he said, "Hey, these are the most important revenue generating activities that I need to focus on on a daily basis." He assigned points to each one of those activities, and he said, "I need to get five points a day. If I get five points a day. Cool. I'm done. I can go off and do whatever the hell I want for the rest of the day. I don't care. I got my five points." And I just I love this concept because I think it's motivating, right. We all like games. They keep us entertained. And so if we can find ways to put things like this in our revenue-generating activities, I think it makes it easier for a lot of people to be consistent and to execute.

Lisa Hocker
Yeah. It's a place to fall back. That's external.

Growth Tactics

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I love that. So let's talk about growth tactics. We all have favorite ones. What are yours?

Lisa Hocker
I think that the best growth, or I think one of my favorite growth tactics is expanding my network on social media and finding super interesting people that I want to spend time with. That I would want to work with and building relationships. And if something comes out of it with regard to the business, great. And if not great. Right. Because as we get older it becomes harder and harder to meet people that we want to spend time with. Another way that I like is to go to entrepreneurial events where I listen to people who have something interesting to talk about. That I might be able to learn something from and then meeting like-minded people at these events. I just went to one over this past weekend in Burbank, which is in Los Angeles, and it was called Driven. It was just unbelievably fascinating listening to people like Jesse Slurs and Less Brown was there. I mean, these are people that that I'm inspired by, and so people that I meet at these events. It's a great way to grow in personally and professionally. Reading is another growth tactic that I like. If you've got to read ten minutes a day. You have to.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Just expand. I am a constant learner. I thrive off that. There's no shortage of things to learn, and the more you learn, the better you get. So I love your social media, I think so many people have unrealistic expectations of what to "Oh, I get on and I post on social media. Nothing's happening." Well, it's social media. You need to get out there. You need to put in the time you need to build relationships. But if you think about the people that we can now connect with on social media, it's unbelievable. I mean, we never, like when I was growing up, you didn't have that. You know, like, I probably you wouldn't meet even half of the people that you do ever without social media. So we have this tool at our fingertips. We just need to know how to get involved and take advantage of that tool and use it in the way that it was intended.

Lisa Hocker
I totally agree. When somebody says, "I posted on social media and I'm being consistent and nothing's happening." That's the same nonsensical bullshit story that they're telling that's like knowing what's happening in somebody's lives. You have no idea what's happening because you're putting energy out there. It's like throwing a rock or a stone into a pond. The ripple effect. Eventually you're going to lose sight of the ripple that you created by that action of throwing the stone into the pond. When you put that stone on social media, you put that post up, you can't see the ripple effect that you're having. You have no effing idea who is seeing your stuff. I just found out that one of the people on my team has decided to create a podcast because I inspired her. Now I'm not saying that to boast. I'm saying I had no idea that this has been going on. She's built an entire brand and new business around what she learned and she's launching a podcast. I have no idea. That's amazing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I think with social media, with a lot of marketing, but social media, especially, you can't go into this with short-term viewpoint. It is a marathon. You need to be consistent. I can't tell you how many people that I've heard speak that, you know, call them influencers, whatever you want to call them. But people that have a decent following on social that didn't happen overnight. Some of those people, it took years, years, so most people never get there because they stop after three weeks

Lisa Hocker
Or 3 follow-ups.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, exactly. So we've got to get out of that and just have some faith that the actions we're taking are going to have an impact at some point in time and you're never going to build a following on social media, you're never going to build relationships if all you do is post and hope that it's going to happen. Cause it's not.

Lisa Hocker
It's true.

Tim Fitzpatrick
This has been awesome. I love this. I love your five steps. These steps, guys, you get anybody. I don't care if you're in direct marketing or not. You can take these steps and tweet them for whatever you're doing. They will work. The important part is the framework itself and the consistency that it helps you built. 

Conclusion: Remove Sales Anxiety With This 5 Step Sales Process For Efficiency & Effectiveness

Tim Fitzpatrick

Any last-minute thoughts you want to leave us with Lisa?

Lisa Hocker
In the book, I think in addition to the value of the five daily steps in that book, one of the things that I talk about heavily is the difference between discipline and motivation and how you can actually cultivate discipline. You've got to rely on discipline rather than motivation. Motivation is a fleeting, unreliable emotion and you can't build a foundation. You can't grow a business on emotion. I'm not saying be robotic and unfeeling. I'm saying cultivate resilience and discipline in your daily activity so that when the shit hits the fan and it will hit the fan.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, it will.

Lisa Hocker
Multiple times. You are going to be able to execute what you need to do to grow regardless of a shit storm around you or a pandemic or a death or illness. So that's one of the things that I really hope people get from the book, not just the five steps.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. That's a really key distinction, right? Because discipline will enable you to do the things you need to do, even when you feel like you don't want to do them.

Lisa Hocker
Right. Right. Even if it's just rolling the dice and doing the two.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes.

Lisa Hocker
And that is the sort of a way to start to cultivate that so that it becomes habit and automatic and you start to see that you are capable.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Where can people learn more about you? They want to learn about your book or check out the dice?

Lisa Hocker
So my website is Direct AF Sales dot com.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Direct AF Sales dot com. So if you got some value from this conversation, I know I did. Go over. Check out Lisa's website at Direct AF Sales dot com. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with me here today, Lisa. Those of you that are watching, listening, thank you for doing so. Really appreciate it. If you are struggling with your marketing and you've tried different tactics, nothing seems to work, you're not sure what the next right step is for you. Hop on over to our site. Rialto Marketing dot com. That's R-I-A-L-T-O marketing dot com. Click on the Get a Free Consult button. Be happy to chat with you and give you some clarity on what your next steps should be. Until next time. Take care.