The Art Of Creating Raving Fans

The Art Of Creating Raving Fans

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in today. I am super excited to have Lori Tisinai from computer concepts with me today. Lori, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Lori Tisinai
And thank you for having me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I am excited to dig into this. I have been looking forward to this chat. Before we jump into the heart of the interview, Lori, I want to ask you a few questions just to help us get to know you. Ready to jump in today?

Lori Tisinai
I am ready.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Lori Tisinai
I am a technology optimization specialist, and I have been doing that for over 24 years.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That is a long time, Lori.

Lori Tisinai
It's a very long time.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's the most important lesson you've learned in those 24 years?

Lori Tisinai
I think that you as a business owner always need to be reinventing yourself and reinventing your business every few years as technology changes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
The only constant in life is change, right?

Lori Tisinai
It is. We don't like it, but it's there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, the more we can embrace it, the easier it is on us. I know in 24 years, plenty of ups and downs, whether it was from economic circumstances or any other thing that happens in business. Do you have any mantra or motivational saying that you say to yourself, share with your team to push through those times?

Lori Tisinai
I just usually have a mantra in my head that says, just keep going and keep doing whatever needs to be done. I don't quit. I just keep going. That's usually what we say. Both my husband and myself say that to each other.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I like that. One of my mentors said, focus on the next measurable step, which always stuck with me because it's like when we have roadblocks or huge projects, we feel it's so easy to get overwhelmed, but it's pretty simple to focus on the next small thing that you can do that you can measure. And when we check that off, we just focus on the next one. And it at least helps us feel like we're making progress. Exactly.

Optimizing Customer Experience to Create Raving Fans

Tim Fitzpatrick
So, Laurie, one of the things in our pre interview, I was fascinated by a few things that you shared with me. But one of the things you talked about was just this focus of creating raving fans and how that has really helped you grow your business. How do you create raving fans? What are some of the things that you focus on that you found have really helped you?

Lori Tisinai
In my business, it's not a technology business. I feel it's a customer service business because we're there to help people when they have problems. Like many people, people have computer problems or technology problems every day. Let me back up a little bit, too. I have as my business title a technology optimization specialist. What exactly is that? Well, we help people, small businesses, get their computers working, whether it's with a backup, protecting their data, making sure that they have adequate security, and just making sure that things are running smoothly for them or making sure that they have the right products that they're using for their business. So that's what I do in terms of a technology optimization specialist. So for me, again, it's just helping people make sure that they're comfortable with maybe what they've invested in. And in order to create raving fans, though, I think it's about not treating them like a number or that their issue is a ticket. A lot in my industry, people call things a ticket. And in the last couple of years, we implemented a ticketing system, and my clients did not like it at all. They really felt like everything then was a ticket or a number instead of just a regular flow or conversation between my team and their team. So we have the ticketing system on our back end, but nobody knows about that ticketing system.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So it sounds like you just have a hyper focus on the client and what you can do to just optimize every experience they have with you.

Lori Tisinai
Correct. Well, because when they're calling us, a lot of times, things aren't working, or something that they're trying to accomplish isn't working for them if they're not our client yet. It's what can we do to help facilitate that, to make sure that things are running smoother for them, or so that they understand what's happening with the technology that they've invested in.

Tim Fitzpatrick
As you talk about this, it brings me back to the first business that I was a partner in was a wholesale distribution company. When we opened our second location, this was mid to late 90s, we had to install a Citrix server. I don't want to say anything really bad about it, but, oh, my God, it seemed like at least every week we were having to rebuild our Citrix server and get back in there. But every time we had to do that, our other location was completely down. And so it's like doing what you do, man, when stuff happens, they can't do business. It's not working.

Lori Tisinai
No. So you just want to educate. So I think that's another piece that allows you to create raving fans is making sure that they understand what's happening to them or understand what product they're using or why things may happen if it does go wrong, just to, again, help alleviate the stress that they have, at least in our business when technology doesn't work. Especially think about COVID in the last few years that we had to deal with. You had to deal with cameras and everybody was on a computer every day. Everything needed to work, headsets. People get stressed out.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Are there any other things that you consciously do to create raving fans other than just hyper focused on the customer experience?

Lori Tisinai
I don't know. I think people, when they're done, a lot of times they also say, Wow, this was like magic. You're just making everything work together. I think trying to understand the technology that they're using and then just making sure that everything is working the way that it should be, making sure that you know maybe what their next question is going to be or what I think it may be, and helping solve a problem that they didn't tell me about. But I just know it usually happens. So I try to get ahead of certain issues, maybe before they become an issue.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It seems to me, too, that you listen. You're a good listener because as you implemented your ticketing system, you're getting feedback and you're like, Oh, my God. People do not like this. There are some people that would have just said, It is what it is. We need to use this ticketing system. Whereas you were like, Hey, how can we still use this so that it's efficient for us while still accommodating clients and making sure that that experience is as good as possible? Because, gosh, the answers are there for us. I see this on the marketing side all the time. We need to talk to our clients and we need to ask them the right questions and just listen to what they have to say. Because when we can hear it in their own words, from a marketing standpoint, there's a lot of gold in there. Whereas for you, they're complaining about it. You're listening to what the issue is and you made it work for you, but you made it work for the clients as well, which I think is huge.

Lori Tisinai
I think that's what we're doing. I think that's been our magic sauce.

Tim Fitzpatrick
As an outsider looking in, I think that's a huge part of it. It's working for you, right? The people that you work with love working with you. Your retention is very high.

Lori Tisinai
Very high. I do know one other thing, too. We answer our phones and we try to be as personable as possible, even in our tech world. Even though I just want to respond to email and I don't want to answer my phone, or I don't want... We just want to work and get through some of the tasks that we have on hand. But having that connection with the client, I think, makes a big difference. With some people.

Tim Fitzpatrick
There's hardly anybody picks up the phone anymore. It's a huge differentiator, frankly. If I've got a tech problem, I really want to talk to somebody, don't I?

Lori Tisinai
Yeah. We have our front office staff. If one of us isn't available to answer the phone, she answers the phone and she diffuses and just helps them know, hey, we're here to help you. She's like, I'm not technical, but I'm here to at least tell you we're going to get you covered and we're going to take care of this issue for you. So that's just part of it.

Using a Facebook Group to Drive Consistent Leads

Tim Fitzpatrick
One of the things that we chatted about in the pre interview was this Facebook group that you got involved in. And I want to break this down a little bit for people because I think there's a lot of learning lessons for people from this. But early on, you had joined a local Facebook group which is now driving pretty consistent leads to your business. Can you just share how that got started? How much time you were investing and what's happening now?

Lori Tisinai
Yes. So in the beginning, it was just a local Facebook group that a woman created so that if you lived in town and you needed a resource for something, you could find out what your neighbors are using or who your neighbor is using and also use that company. Part of the rules, though, were you could not promote yourself. Other people had to promote you or had to comment your name because they just didn't want self promoters because it didn't mean that you were providing a good job or not. This Facebook group is where I really learned about raving fans. I didn't even know that term before, and then I realized what had happened over time. When someone would post, I'm having a computer issue, or I need some support for whatever the issue may have been in terms of technology, I couldn't comment myself. But other friends and customers that use my services would say, Oh, Lori could help with that. And it just wasn't becoming one or two people commenting. It would be 50 people commenting. Lori is the best. Here's her phone number. Here's the link to her Lori 360 site. Or she helped us do this. Or Lori is the best. Or it was the team, but they can't tag my team, but they could just tag me because I lived locally and work locally. So it was crazy. I mean, literally hundreds or sometimes 100 people would like the same post.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Did you engage much in the group early on?

Lori Tisinai
Well, sometimes I would provide value to somebody. S omeone would say, Oh, I'm trying to find, say, a printer, or I'm trying to pick out a computer. What do I need? I would say, Well, these are maybe the five things that you want to ask yourself if you're going to buy X, Y, and Z. Here's one of my favorites and here's why. Then I would provide an Amazon link, and then just offer up my recommendations. It really wasn't a lot of added information I'd be providing, but just some quick answers.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How long have you been in that group now?

Lori Tisinai
I think that group maybe has been around for maybe seven years. I would say seven. And it wasn't right away where everyone in town was using it, but now I think there's around, I'd have to check, but I would say at least 4,000 people within that one local Facebook group. And then there's a few other ones that are around, maybe more targeted like small business owners, or if you live within a certain area where we live, there's a couple of different female groups. So I comment in there. But I love being local and working local and having people rave about me within town. So to me, that just makes a better fit for me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you still go into the group now and engage?

Lori Tisinai
I do. I mean, if I'm looking or seeing what other people are asking, I always like to give advice too, or like, hey, I've used this particular person or this particular company for this, but usually I'm working during the day and I don't have time to be in that Facebook group. But since I've created these raving fans, sometimes people that don't even know me or use my services will tag my name because they know my name is a part of the group and they know that I'll be able to help. Or I have people call me and say, I saved your information, or I saved that screenshot hoping I would never need to use you and I need to use you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you do a lot of networking within the community as well?

Lori Tisinai
I did years ago, but I really have not really been networking at all. One, I mean, COVID. I would do a couple of seminars here and there, but there was nothing local. But in the past, yes, I would go out to different networking groups and always be going and always being seen. I didn't just build this up overnight. People knew who I was before, but just the Facebook group got it out to more people that maybe weren't involved in the different organizations that I was in.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you remember how long it took before you started to get business after you joined that Facebook group?

Lori Tisinai
I think right away.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you did. So you got pretty immediate results from it.

Lori Tisinai
I did because once I then worked with somebody and I performed magic or someone else on my team performed magic for that organization, they would then comment within the group, I just wanted to say that working with Laurie and her team was amazing, and here's what they did for me. If you ever need additional support, definitely give her a call. So not only did I get the 50 people commenting and liking, saying my name, and then people would go back in and do a review about me within the group, and it would then again lead to more work and more positive feedback about the company.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love this example because one, it shows the power of social groups. They can be hit or miss. Sometimes it takes time. You got to engage in multiple before you really find one that's going to work. But there are some very powerful social groups out there, and you have obviously found one. You got pretty immediate results. I always tell people don't expect that because you're going to give up too early. I think it's important to engage and add value in the group consistently. And it will start to give back. But I have a client that we've been working with for a while now who's in the home theater design space. I know early on with his business, he got involved in a couple of forums. I don't remember, it's been a while, but I don't remember how much time he spent. But he spent quite a bit of time just jumping into these forums, giving people feedback and free advice. These were home theater enthusiasts. I want to build the theater, and here's the issue I'm running into, and he would answer questions. Now, I don't think he goes in there much at all, but there's so much content and so many people that have talked about him. He gets business from these forums all the time. That's exactly what's happening with this Facebook group for you.

Lori Tisinai
I do that, too, within other Facebook groups, even within my industry. I make comments. I do go to a lot of networking events within my industry. People then refer other business to me. If it's not going to work for their business, how their business model works, I then get referral business from other people in the IT MSP space. It's worked, again, within a specific group, my target market, and then also then just within my peers.

Building a Personal Brand Outside of the Business Brand

Tim Fitzpatrick
I know, Laurie, you had mentioned your Lori 360 site, and you spent a lot of time building your personal brand outside of the business brand. Why did you do that?

Lori Tisinai
Well, because people... I mean, it's the old saying, right? People like to do business with people they know, like, and trust. Even though people know computer concepts, they know my face and they know my name more, I think, than the business name. For me, it was about increasing or accelerating that relationship with people because the more they know you or the more they think they know you or recognize you, I think it's easier to recognize a face than it is to maybe necessarily notice a logo or a company name.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you spend more time building your personal brand than you do the business brand?

Lori Tisinai
That's a really good question. I don't know. I feel like I haven't really been building my brand very much. I think a lot of times I'm posting about what I'm passionate about in my business, and so maybe it's really more about my personal brand than my business brand. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm posting about business, where I am, what I'm doing, what I'm learning. I post on Facebook, personal things and business things. For me, since I am that business owner and I feel like I'm married to my business, that it's one and the same for me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. How long ago? Do you remember how long ago it was that you made that choice where you're like, I'm going to spend some time on my personal brand?

Lori Tisinai
It wasn't a conscious decision. I wanted to improve my business a little bit more. I felt like I was in a rut and I needed to start thinking about things differently. This was maybe five years ago. And so I went to a couple of events that were just business events, not specific to my industry, just for entrepreneurs in general. And I noticed this gentleman that was talking about branding and personal branding, and I loved it. I was like, I think that's great because I am more than just computer concepts. I do things with my husband in the maritime industry. I host events for Peter's in my industry. What am I going to do? Hand out five different business cards when I'm out and about. So for me, the Lori 360 site came into play because I have more than just one business. And at the time, we had a lot of different businesses. I just wanted to make it easier for people to locate me. And that's through my personal brand. Because let me tell you, trying to keep up with four different Facebook pages for a different business or four different LinkedIn pages. Plus there's not enough time in a day to post on all of those. So I just wanted to mash them all together, which is neat.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's interesting because in the marketing space, I can think of... I have two people that just pop right into my head who have large companies, but a lot of what they do is focused on just building their personal brand and their personal brand drives traffic and interest to their business. But you can do it either way. I think it really just depends on what you want from your business and where you want to go. But there's plenty of examples of people that have built very successful personal brands, and those personal brands just hope to drive everything for their business. So I think it's interesting. You're one of the first people that I've talked to that's actually mentioned personal brand, which is why I wanted to bring it up because it's worked well for you.

Lori Tisinai
It has. I give a presentation about what I call branding in the sales cloud. It's more than just that getting the client, you have to do all these other things or all these other pieces. It's just my take on it. But I have a lot of pushback from other business owners that's saying, I don't want to be the brand. I don't want to be the face of the business because then if I sell my business, then I'm not the brand. But for me, I think it helps grow because, again, people know, like and trust you. So that's how you're closing a deal anyway is because people know you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Lori Tisinai
Again, it's not about a logo.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I think it can work either way. I see the idea of, Hey, I don't want people to buy me. I don't want the business to be tied to me because I want to be able to sell it and all that. And I understand that side of it. But you said something that I think is super important that a lot of people overlook where you were just like, Hey, look, when I'm dealing with potential clients directly, they're dealing with you, right? And they're buying you in the beginning and building your personal brand up front has helped you increase and accelerate that, the speed at which you can develop that relationship, which I think is really easy to overlook. So just wanted to pull that out because I think that's a huge advantage.

Lori Tisinai
Well, there's some other statistics, too. I believe it takes seven times for someone to hear your name or your company name to remember it, to even maybe have some recognition like, Hey, I know that face or I know that name. Then most buyers have already made the decision of who they're going to do business with. I think it's like 89 %, I could be wrong. I know I have a couple of statistics, but it's a very large number. They've already made that decision before they've even gotten to your company website because they've seen other people talk about you or mention you. That's what you do. You want to see that social proof. It's not about going to Yelp or going to Google reviews. That may help as well in times, but it's really what are other people saying about you, either online or behind your back when they're talking about something and they need help with it. And they're like, Oh, you know what? I have heard of her before. I totally forgot about her or about that company, but I've heard them before, so I'm going to give them a call. Great idea. And that's what happens.

Staffing is a Challenge for a Lot of Business Owners

Tim Fitzpatrick
How many people do you have on your team at this point? I know you have a smaller team.

Lori Tisinai
So we have three people on the team, and I am looking to grow. So very exciting news. We just got the new location open, so we're going to be expanding. I've got a bigger space that just happened yesterday.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Very cool.

Lori Tisinai
What was it called? The management company finally finished painting and putting the new rugs in. I'll have some cool new things to post in the next couple of days.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. I know staffing is a challenge for a lot of business owners in this current climate. Anything in particular that you're doing to try and help solve that issue for you?

Lori Tisinai
So what's crazy, I never thought a year ago I would have said no. Six months ago I would have said no. I'm not looking to... We've been working remote, we worked remote before, we're great working remote. But I think there is a difference when you're onboarding new team members to be in one place pretty consistently. I think by having this new space to be built out, we're going to be working with some interns to help facilitate them learning about the business and different aspects of either technology or cybersecurity. I just think it's going to be a hub where you're going to want to come and be a part of it. Even if it's just for a few hours a day, beat traffic. But I think being together in a group will really help. I think having this new space will help with that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Have you used the Facebook group to try and find people?

Lori Tisinai
No. Which Facebook? Well, so again, I have lots of different Facebook groups.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I was thinking the local Facebook group. Have you tried that?

Lori Tisinai
No. One of the reasons why I don't is I don't want to incorporate having maybe a client's child or someone that is local to the neighborhood learning about... Again, when we're working with people on their technology, we see everything. We're going into people's homes or connecting to machines. I just don't know if I want other people to see information or know who our customers are locally. So I haven't done that. But in another community where our office is going to be, which is a little bit further away. I'm sharing it with my husband, but I will be working within that community to find some local help.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. And then looking for... Are you looking for interns from the local colleges?

Lori Tisinai
Well, in the past, I've worked with... Actually, it's where I went to college. So I've always had a close relationship with the school. So I've worked with a lot of students there every year. Either they were marketing interns or tech interns or business interns. But I've recently been approached by a high school near where my husband has his office, and they have four high schools, and a lot of these kids aren't going to be going on to college. And so the high school has actually been awarded grant money to help pay the kids to go get the intern, but they just need a place that will invest in a high schooler to give them the time to be trained. So to me, I think it's a win and get them trained up. So I've been really excited about that. So I'm going to be working with a local high school for a group of interns anyway to see how it works out.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I think it's a great just outside the box way of approaching it because I think a lot of people probably aren't thinking about that or might be a little bit more closed off to it. But I just had a conversation with the MSP and the guy got started. He was a Park Ranger. That was his first professional gig, was a Park Ranger. He has no degrees in technology at all. It's all self taught and learned over time. I think there's a lot of people in the tech space that are like that that are incredibly capable people.

Lori Tisinai
I'm doing that. What's neat about what the high school is doing is they're working with an organization called Contia, and they provide guidelines for people in our industry. And the kids are getting different certifications. But again, they need experience. It's one thing I've learned in some of my other Facebook groups that I'm in, where people are trying to break into the industry, they're smart people. They've come from other industries. They want to learn. They have an interest, but they have no experience. So to create this hub where people can come and learn, that want to learn, that need the experience, I'm all for being able to provide that. So that's my new passion project coming up this year.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I can't wait to hear how that goes. You're not going to have a problem finding people, right? So it's just a matter of seeing how well people adapt and learn, right?

Lori Tisinai
So I'm excited about it. And what's interesting, I've got the high school kids, and then I was at a couple of other events, and I met a woman at another event where she's a teacher at a college and she teaches math, but she doesn't want to be a college professor anymore. She wants to get into IT cyber type work, but again, she has no experience. So I said, well, let's chat this summer when you're done with school and let's see if I can provide you some type of experience. I can't spend all my time getting everybody geared up. Without them being able to actually do some work as well. So we'll see how it all works out. But I think it should be a win win for everybody.

Use Short Videos to Provide Value

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So what's next, Lori? What are your aspirations for the future? You're moving into a new office, you got this new intern program that's kicking up. What else is on the docket?

Lori Tisinai
I think for me, it's just being more efficient. I do want to become more creative. My goal is to actually start doing more recordings that I always tell other people to do, like get online, start creating little videos. I just haven't had the time because we've been so busy just really growing with our customers every week. I may not have large clients every day, but I do have a consistency of new customers that are coming through the door. Even if I don't work with them, they know that I'm always a good resource for them, even in the future. I actually, I can tell you a story. I proposed a company, I didn't win the job, but I still continued to work with the owner of the company on his max because the company that he ended up going with didn't want to work on max. But he ended up having a significant cyber issue, cyber concern. He knew that I was all about making sure people's information is protected. So he called me looking for some resources and I was able to help him out. So to me, I think it's just always putting your best foot forward and just always helping people out and just making sure, again, that they're informed and educated.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I don't want to go too far down a rabbit hole here, but you talked about video. I love video. I think there are a lot of people that want to do video content that have a hard time getting into it. I want to try and add some value to people here. What are you thinking about doing from a video standpoint? Are you thinking about shooting short form video that you can promote on social?

Lori Tisinai
Really short. I'm always on social media, and so I'm sitting there watching the reels. I love these reels. I love just getting three new tips, like, Oh, I didn't know about that. Well, I didn't know about that. I did see one gentleman, I didn't know him in my space or my industry. I really don't quite know what he does. I haven't social media stalked him enough, but he pops up in my feed and he has thousands of views on these quick tips, like things that we do every day that I don't even think about being a tip. But that's what people are doing today, and that's providing value. It may not bring you your best target market, but it might be worth a try. Did Gary Vee think that he was going to become as big as he was by just creating little snippets of video?

Tim Fitzpatrick
No.

Lori Tisinai
So you don't know.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. YOu don't know. So I'll share with you my process for this. And I'm not saying I have the best process, but this is what works for me because you're talking about most of these short form clips are 30 to 60 seconds. They're not long. One of the things that I do is I just have a list in my note taking software. I have a list of all my content ideas, and as I get ideas, I just put them on the list and I keep a running tally so that every time I go and it's very easy, you touched on this for us to overlook, there's stuff we're doing every day that could be a tip, but we don't think about it. We just need to get into that mindset where we are thinking about it and we're noticing it. I just put them on the list and once a week I go in, it's nothing special. I grab my phone, I shoot a vertical video on my phone, and I just run through the list and I do five a week. I shoot five short form videos. Usually, it takes me 20 to 30 minutes to shoot five short form videos, and then I just upload them. And then one of the guys on my team that manages that stuff takes it from there. If you don't have people on your team, again, this doesn't have to be difficult. We don't do much editing, but we do add captions and we add some headlines here and there. It's not as difficult as a lot of people think. The thing that I love about video is it helps people get to know you. There's people that I don't know, but maybe they've seen me, they've heard my name, they hear me speak. They just at least start to get an idea of what I'm like.

Lori Tisinai
I agree. Not in my business per se, but we were in Michigan. My husband was doing a yacht survey. The yacht is behind us and I always travel with a selfie stick literally in my bag, in my purse. It's with me and little portable mics that are just easy clips and they all charge in a little case. I love it. I have other ones, but this has now become my new favorite tool. We just finished for the day and I'm like, Okay, well, Bill, we just need to do a quick two-minute video. He's like, Laurie, I don't want to do a video. I'm like, Two minutes. We're here. It's a great background. Let's just do it. Here's the mic. I just put it on him and he didn't have a choice. I just was asking him questions in the background. I didn't do a go live. I just did a recording just to take off that stress of going live and if it was going to work. I used the cinematic view on the iPhone 14, which is amazing. And we just did questions and I said, Hi, I'm Lori. I'm going to be interviewing Bill here today. So Bill, tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us about what you did during the survey today. I posted it on his Facebook page. Within three, four days, 100 views, not a lot. I then personally shared it and then we got up to 1,000 views. I haven't looked at it again. But within just a few more days, that really just started to spread. We've done other videos where all of a sudden it's been sometimes 100,000. Just a quick little snippet.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You just never know.

Lori Tisinai
Yeah, you never know.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
You never know. So knowing what you know now, anything you'd do differently?

Lori Tisinai
Anything I do differently. I think for me, I've always been afraid to hire and to grow because I've been through economic downtime. I've been through lots of things, owning a business for the same 24, 25 years. I think for me, I would take the leap and hire earlier instead of using contractors all the time, which has really been what I've always done. But I think hiring internally first would have been maybe my first choice, something I would do differently.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. Lori, thank you so much. It's been a great interview. You've shared a lot of cool stuff that I haven't talked to people about. So thank you for doing that. Where can people learn more about you?

Lori Tisinai
They can learn more about me at lori360.com. My name, Lori, if you're listening to the podcast, is L O R I and it's the numbers 360.com.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. We're sending people to your personal brand page. I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time, Lori. Those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you. Lori shared a number of things here that have helped her grow, accelerate growth. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can find that over at revenueroadblockscorecard.com. In less than five minutes, you'll be able to discover and assess which of those roadblocks are slowing you down. You can also always connect with us over at rialtomarketing.com. So, Lori, thank you. Thank you. Til next time. Take care.