The Critical Elements To Building A Successful Sales Engine

The Critical Elements To Building A Successful Sales Engine

Tim Fitzpatrick
How do you build a successful sales engine to grow your company? An effective sales engine is an absolute must for any company that wants to grow, but it can be daunting to think about all the things that you need to happen. That's why I have someone who has done this over and over again with me today to share the process and the key elements you must have to be successful. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have Tim McNeil from OSR Manage and Sales Maturity with me today. Tim, welcome and thanks for being here.

Tim McNeil
Yeah, no, thank you for having me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's great to be on. Yes, I can't wait to dig into this, man. Sales is something that a lot of us struggle with. So hopefully we can help guide people down the right path today. Before we do that, I want to ask you if you're ready to rapid fire questions, help us get to know you. You ready to rock?

Tim McNeil
Yeah, go ahead.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. When you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

Tim McNeil
I've got two young kids. I've got an almost eight and almost six-year-old, so that is... That is all consuming. I would say that's how I like to spend my time.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I know what you mean, man. What's your hidden talent?

Tim McNeil
I'd say the people that know me, I'm a mean contractor. I basically rebuilt a house, our first house in Connecticut. And I put a fully functional bar/family room and workout room in our basement at our second house.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Dude, that's a nice hidden talent to have. So you're great at sales but you can build you can physically build stuff as well, right?

Tim McNeil
I can. I can.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Tim McNeil
I had my first position out of college was at Northwestern Mutual and I had a mentor there. First off, I hated it, but whatever. Great people at the office I was at it. Just insurance was not for me. One of my mentors very early on told me something that I never forgot and I tell people all the time. If you're a salesperson and you get a no, that's not a negative. You're one no closer to having that yes. You're one answer closer to having that yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So you're doing your job if you're getting Nos.

Tim McNeil
Yes. Yeah. Which can be hard for people to relate to sometimes, but it is it's a factual statement.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, it is. What's one thing about you that surprises people other than you being a great contractor?

Tim McNeil
I mean, I've got a pretty easygoing. I've got a maybe not easygoing personality is the right thing. But I tend to be friends with everybody. I would like to think I find the best in people. I joke around sometimes too much, but I would say that's probably it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What does success mean to you?

Tim McNeil
Creating a life for my kids that was better than what I had. And that is I feel like I've had a fortunate life and didn't grow up with millions or anything like that. But to me, passing down my success and having my kids have a better opportunity than I had and whatever that might be for them moving forward, that would be a success to me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's a great answer, man. Nobody's ever answered in that way. So kudos to you, man. You're super unique there. Where is your happy place?

Tim McNeil
On Lake George. Lake George, New York. It's one of the greatest places in the world.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Where is that in New York? Is that in upstate New York or where?

Tim McNeil
It is upstate New York. It's for anybody listening that knows the geography of Albany. I'm sorry, of New York, it's about 60 miles north of Albany. So it's a lake that's about 35, 36 miles long, but it is right in the Edirondacks and honestly, one of the most beautiful places you've ever seen. And it's lucky enough to have it 20 minutes from my house.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Oh, damn. I was going to say 35, 36 miles. I mean, it's pretty big.

Tim McNeil
It's yeah, it's a big lake. Yeah, it's a big lake.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. It's a good size lake.

Tim McNeil
Yeah. Yeah, it's a great place.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. What do you like to do at Lake George?

Tim McNeil
I've got a boat. So we've spent a lot of time. My wife and I, kids are young enough where we don't really go away for vacations right now because they're still seven and five. So I look at it. We've got a dock there. I look at that as being our vacation. So we spend a lot of time on the water during the summer.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So water ski or wakeboard?

Tim McNeil
I do both. It's a Lake George specifically is hard to water ski on because it's so busy. But we do when we can. It's few and far between. But when it's smooth, you can take a rip out there pretty easy.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Or you can pull your kids on a tube.

Tim McNeil
Yes. It's more that, right?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. What qualities do you value on the people you spend time with?

Tim McNeil
I'm a no BS person. So I just like it when people are straight with me. I think my wife and I both, and Rob Rogers, my business partner, we tend to circle ourselves with people who are just they're honest, they're not trying to get one over on you. They're just good people, right? Salt of the earth. That's what I would say. Those are the people that we tend to gravitate towards.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So tell us a little bit more about what you're doing with OSR Manage and sales maturity.

Tim McNeil
Yeah. OSR is really our main, I would say, our first company, our main company. So what we do there is we are a fractional sales manager for the MSP channel. We call it sales manager as a service. And we've got a full-time recruiter. Essentially what we do is when we start working with an MSP, whether they have a salesperson existing or they want to hire a salesperson, we can work with them in either way. We have a full-time recruiter on staff, full-time trainer on staff. We have five managers that manage sales people all over North America. We do. We always have one or two clients in Canada and predominantly in the US. And we manage those people, we manage those sales people to best practice, right? So we've been in channel a long time and even prior to being in the channel, Rob and I both worked at an MSP in Hartford, Connecticut. Personally, I was on the sales side for four and a half years and he was actually my sales manager. So when we're managing sales people, the system that we managed to is very similar in some aspects to what Rob did, how he managed me back in the day. And daily huddles, weekly one on ones, weekly sales training, weekly calls with the client, just like if they had a sales manager on staff. And then where sales maturity comes into play is just because we have that experience within the MSP community, we've got literally hundreds of documents, and I'm talking hundreds on every aspect of the sales cycle and the sales process. Where sales maturity comes into play, it's really set up in two different forms. We call it boss mode and adventure mode. So the boss mode is really more geared for those MSPs that they may be looking to be acquired in the next two to five years. And we've got a really aggressive growth track to make sure that their sales maturity is in line with their operational maturity level. So it's an 84 question assessment where an MSP comes in and we can actually show them where they are in their sales maturity growth, what they should be working on next, all with the goal of, okay, you want to exit in two to five years. Here's what we need to do to square up your sales department. Because we've been told by many experts within the industry that you can expect 2-3 times more X on exit if you have a sustainable sales process and sales team. And then where adventure mode comes into play is for the MSP that is looking to get breakthrough ceiling, right? Whether it's at 500,000, 1.5 or 2.5 ceiling, that's more of an AI tool. So where that comes into play is we are able to put all of our documents into the adventure mode. And whether you're looking to create a script, campaign, whatever it might be, help on how to run an on site meeting or just prospect in general, our AI bots will be able to create all of that for you. It's a privatized, it's privatized AI. So it's all of our information pulling from over 200 documents to get the answers and help that MSPs need in any stage of the sales process.

The Most Important Elements for Successful Recruiting and Hiring for Salespeople

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. Let's talk sales man. So you got to recruit and hire people first and foremost. So what are the most important elements to be successful there that you guys have found?

Tim McNeil
The recruiting side of what we do is my baby. Because prior to me being in the MSP world, I was a recruiter for three and a half, almost four years. The biggest thing when if you're an MSP and you're looking to hire a salesperson, whether it's your first or your 10th, you need to hire to your core values. More and more, especially post-COVID, everybody knows what the hiring climate is out there right now. The most successful clients that we have, they hire not only their salespeople, but everybody around their core values. In fact, we've got multiple clients when we're working with them or we're trying to find a salesperson for them, part of their initial on site interview is less about what your background and this and that. And it's more about almost giving them a presentation about who they are, who that MSP is, what their core values are, what it means to them. And how it's the only way that that person can be successful in their company is if there's a match there. So that's probably the most important thing I would say. I mean, yes, you should be looking for business to business experience. Ideally, you want somebody who's had no more than two jobs in five years. Those things are still important, don't get me wrong. But it's more about the core values.

Tim Fitzpatrick
When you guys are advertising for salespeople, is there anything that you're doing special in the ads themselves to make sure you're attracting people that have those core values?

Tim McNeil
So there is a lot of... Sales and recruiting are somewhat similar. I liken it to fishing, right? You've got to use different lures to find people. So when you're looking for a salesperson, I'll use Indeed as an example. You can just post a got post in and you can have people reactively apply to it. And sometimes the results are good, sometimes they're not. What we recommend doing is having that ad-live and then also doing a proactive search and inviting people. So once you can find through the proactive search, there's a lot of different filters. It runs somewhat similar to a LinkedIn. If anybody has a sales navigator, you can put in a number of different filters and try and find at least start out with a pool of people that hit parameters of what you're looking for, right? And then from there there is a fair amount of research that goes into it. But you start inviting people to the position to apply to the position. And if you look at our last 10 hires or out of any given 10 hires, probably seven of them come from the proactive search where we're actively fishing for people. And that is proven to have some really nice results, right? Longevity tends to be a little bit longer, a little more invested in the position right out of the gate. Generally, you're not finding people who are as much a job hoppers, which can be hard in today's times. But it has been that's that's critical, we feel, in the whole recruiting process. Also doing the profiles do a good job.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to make sure I heard you right because this is something easy for people to overlook. Out of the last 10 hires you guys have made seven of them have come from your proactive outreach efforts. So super important as far as I'm concerned because too many of us... Gosh, there's so many parallels here to marketing as well, right? Where it's like getting your marketing out there and attracting inbound leads is great, but you also have to have some proactive, outbound efforts as well. And on the hiring side, what you guys are finding is the vast majority of the candidates are actually coming from outbound. So if you're just putting an ad out there hoping that everybody's going to come to you, you're missing out on a hell of a lot of candidates.

Tim McNeil
You are. You are. Yeah, you really are. I mean, there's a whole other world when you start going proactive and the ability that you have to be able to reach a different audience and generally a more productive audience. So it's highly recommended. And when we started doing that, look, I'll be honest with you, we didn't used to have to do that. We did it out of necessity once COVID hit because everything went so sideways. But it ended up being one of the better, not mistakes, but one of the better things we backed into that has afforded us to find some really good sales people out there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I think the other thing that's important to consider here, too, is in your outreach efforts, most of those people, they're fully employed at this point, right?

Tim McNeil
Yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But at the same time, we also know that, and I don't know what the percentages are, you may know this better than I do, but it's fairly high. I mean, there's a lot of people that are not happy in their existing jobs. So when you're outreaching with an opportunity that's a good fit, there's a much higher likelihood that they're going to at least want to investigate that and see what's going on. I think the other thing too, that is important to consider here you're talking about hiring for core values really first. The skills are important, but either you got the values or you don't. You're that type of person. So you can't... You hire somebody that doesn't share your core values, you're not going to fix it later.

Tim McNeil
It's just not going to work.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's not going to happen. So I also think, and this is where we get another parallel of the marketing too, is your marketing message attracts the people you intend to work with, and it repels the people that you don't. Your core values act similarly on the hiring side. If you're leading with your core values and talking about those in your ads, in your initial conversations, your initial communications. You are naturally going to repel those people that don't share those same core values, which means you're not going to waste your time with a bunch of people that are not a good fit from a core value standpoint, which I think is super, super important. But damn, one of the biggest takeaways I'm taking away from what you just shared is proactive outreach is incredibly important.

Tim McNeil
Extremely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
My guess is a lot of people are not doing that.

Tim McNeil
Probably not. And it's not a dang on them. It's just it's a function of time, right? And that's where we've been able to create our niche. And one of the reasons we've been able to create our niche in the MSP community is we have somebody that has the time. And that's a precious commodity. It just is.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, to me, Tim, it's not only do you have somebody that has the time, they have the skill set and the expertise to do it effectively. I don't know about you. Well, you're different than I am because you were a recruiter for a while.

Tim McNeil
I was.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But most business owners do not have experience recruiting. It is not our skill set.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No, not your thing.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So having somebody in-house on your team that can fill that role or your clients, I think, is super, super important.

Tim McNeil
Yeah.

How to Help a New Salesperson Get Started Down the Right Path

Tim Fitzpatrick
So I want to shift gears a little bit, Tim. So we talked a little bit about recruiting, hiring. Once we find those people, how do we get those people started off on the right foot? And I think this is where, gosh, not only just with salespeople, but just with new team members in general. This is where I think a lot of us go down the wrong path where we just don't have the processes, the systems in place to get people started. So help us out here.

Tim McNeil
So I'll back up just real quick. So Rob and I started OSR. Initially, we were a lead generation company for the first five years. We've been around for almost 10 years now, right? So for the first five years, we were lead gen company. And one of the things that we found time and time again when we were lead gen was the MSP owner that would call us up and they would say, you know what? We've tried and failed with two, three, four, five sales people, and they all suck. They're all terrible. They don't know what they're doing. It's the other thing. And I'm just going to write you a check. You're going to make calls from me and everything's going to be great. That is surface level. That sounds great but that's not the reality, right? What we what we started finding over time was the mistakes that MSP owners generally making isn't always true, but generally it's true. When they hire a tech or an engineer, they probably have a ramp up period that could be as much as 90 days with specific training on everything that they use, whether it's a PSA, all the vendors that they use in their stack, all of that, right? A tech or an engineer, they come in and they have a roadmap. But yet when it comes to a salesperson, often there is no training, sometimes there's no leads. Often there's not even a CRM. It could be like an Autotask or Connectwise. You can you can live through with one of those. And I would say one of the biggest things people need is that process for a salesperson. And that includes both upfront training specifically on prospecting. This is one of the drums that I've beaten for a long time. It doesn't matter how much you pay a salesperson, doesn't matter how good their proven closing experiences. If they can't open the door, they are worthless to you. Just are, right? So for that reason, we tend to focus a lot on the prospecting, how to create prospects or first have appointments out of the gate and then start the ongoing of okay, this is what an MSP sales cycle looks like in all its different stages. And we coach and train them through it on an ongoing basis. It can take time and everybody gets it at their own rate. What I would say for the MSP owners out there, look, can hire a salesperson, give it time. The reality is it's going to take six to nine months for that person to start closing their first deals. You hope that they close three to four deals in the first year. But what you're doing in that first year is creating something where the person understands your company, understands the industry. They have a pipeline. They've taken over as more and more aspects of the sales process. With the ultimate goal of hopefully you want that person to be really just running it almost from beginning to end, from years to on with the sales engineer that in a supporting role for any technical conversations that come up. So that was really long.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No, not at all, man. It's not at all. I want to pull some things out here because there's some really good stuff in there. We've got to have process. Super important. We have to think long term. This is another parallel with marketing, right? So many of us get in thinking short term. Oh, my gosh. I just hired this salesperson or I just started marketing and they haven't closed a deal or I'm not generating leads in the first 30 to 60 days. It's like, this isn't how this works. You have to do this consistently. So you've got to be committed minimum six to nine months for them to start getting up to speed and rolling. I also think, and we're going to go down this path because you touched on this, where you mentioned, gosh, they come in and there's no leads. And I know that people... There seem to be a few other camps here, right? You hire a salesperson and they're a freaking hunter and they're going out. They got to find their own prey and take it down. And then there's this mix too, where it's like, hey, I expect you to hunt, but we're also actively marketing and generating leads for you. In your experience, do you think that one of those is more successful than the other?

Tim McNeil
So I think we may have even in prior conversations, we may have talked about this. One of the most telling stats that Rob and I have come across was Rob, again, business partner, he had a speaking engagement last year at Activation. And one of the things that he did in preparation for this breakout session was he evaluated all of the calls from the sales people that we managed from January 21 through October 22. It was about a million calls. And what we found was for a sales rep that just went to an MSP and they didn't really have any marketing support or cadencees or campaigns going out. They were just doing cold calls and creating their centers of influence, maybe doing some chamber events, associations, et cetera. I would take about... I'm sorry, I take 337 calls to get one appointment. For our MSPs that had scored away marketing campaigns, cadencees, mailers being sent out, sales and marketing being on the same page and leads were being generated by marketing or with marketing and sales tag team. It went from 337 calls to one appointment down to 151 calls to one appointment. So what I would say is if you're an MSP and you're about to hire a salesperson, everything I just said about recruiting and everything I just said about training, you really shouldn't hire that salesperson until you have a squared away marketing campaign or cadence is built out and running. It's your best chance for success. And that can be a struggle for some MSP owners or just MSPs because that means more money. That means longer ROI. However, once you get to the other side, what you'll find is the cost per appointment dropped significantly. And even though you're spending more upfront, you get it so much more on the backend.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. You're basically generating twice as many appointments with marketing piggybacking off of your sales efforts. I also think the other and frankly, I don't think this is much different in any other space outside of the MSP space either. I also think there is a higher likelihood you are going to retain your sales people for a longer period of time because look, most of us know that hunting day in, day out is freaking hard. Okay? It takes a special person to be able to go in and do that day in, day out. It's just hard. And so if you can help supplement some of that with leads that you're feeding your salespeople, I just think they're going to be much happier long term, and they're going to feel much more supported by the organization. The other thing where I think marketing is going to help, and thank you, I threw you a softball there unintentionally. I threw you I didn't stop all the attention. But the other thing where I think marketing also plays a key role from a sales standpoint is with messaging. The messaging is so important on the front end with marketing, but it's also important as you transition leads from marketing to sales, to me, part of that training and onboarding process with sales is also like, hey, this is our message to the market. This is how we are different. This is our unique selling proposition because that message needs to be the same. Otherwise, when leads come in through marketing, if they go to sales and it's a different message, people get confused, right? They're like, whoa, wait a minute. This is different. Yeah, what's going on here? And that's not a good thing either. So I love it. And thank you for sharing that stat. I have nobody who's ever shared any stat like that with me.

Tim McNeil
Actually, we are about to refresh that and go through. So we're going to do it again and we're going to do it again in time. Sorry, I'm just looking at the date. No, it's all good. In about 45 days we'll have updated stats on them.

The Most Important Metrics to Track for Sales Success

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, cool. I love it. You're going to have to keep me posted. So we talked a little bit about recruiting, hiring. Once we brought them on board, some of the things we need to do to help them be successful long term? As they're starting to take action. Metrics, so important. God, again, so important on the marketing side, super important on the sales side, what metrics do you guys find to be the most important ones to track?

Tim McNeil
So we subscribe to what we call a sales activity process or system. It's very much like a utilization rate for the techs and the engineers at an MSP, right? You want to tech or engineer that probably stands to reason you probably want to be billed for 32-34 hours a week. We've translated a similar system to a salesperson. And we believe in really a multiprong approach, right? So calling is always going to be the foundation of what we recommend. But that's not the end all be all, right? I think when people hear that you should lead with calling, they automatically think you've got a cool color and that's all they do. And that's not really the case. It should be the foundation of what they do. You're going to be able to talk to more people through calling than you can any other way. But on top of that, you should really have... We recommend using Dripify through LinkedIn. So you're going to need a sales navigator license and a Dripify campaign going. That will increase your reach and frequency within your target market in the market that you're in. So that's another way to just brand awareness, the salesperson awareness on top of the calling. Also, any emails, yes. I mean, you got to send emails. But also how many networking events is this person going to? Well, we call them BLBs, breakfast, lunch, and beer. So we for any salesperson that's in your territory and going to a brick and mortar or just within within your radius, they should be having no less than two BLBs a week with circles of influence or people that they've met at networking events. So it's a lot of words to say that we've got a point system around calling, LinkedIn activity, sending emails. If you're going to networking events, doing individual one on ones or that center of influence. And that's what we find to be the most successful way to create a well-rounded salesperson, because what we talked about before or alluded to before doing one of anything, doing one of any of those things probably won't make you successful. But if you do them all in conjunction, that's what makes a successful, well-rounded rep.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you guys are tracking the activity? You have recommended numbers for each of those activities, and then they're being scored weekly?

Tim McNeil
Daily, weekly, and monthly.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay.

Tim McNeil
Daily, weekly, and monthly.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So that's that for the owner or you guys as the fractional sales manager, that gives you a scorecard to look at like, hey, are they doing what they need to do? If they're not, hey, this is time for us to get in and start coaching on, hey, we got to get these up. But the other thing that I'm also wondering is it seems like to me these activities are leading indicators that are going to lead to leads being generated. And as you guys continue to track these things, do you get to a place with any given client where you can go, hey, we now have enough data where we know that if you hit these scores, you will generate X amount of leads?

Tim McNeil
Yeah. That takes time, right? Every client is different. But yeah, we've got it's all about longevity. It's at goes back to what we were saying before. You've got to be patient. Whether it's a marketing, whether you're working with a marketing company or a company like us, you've got to be patient. It takes time to create that data. But once you have it, and it's hard to replace that because not many people get there. And when they do, you got to take advantage of it. I think we've been pretty fortunate with some of the people that we've been able to work with that we've worked with them long enough where you tweak levers after a while. You're not in rebuild mode or you're not in build mode as much as you are, okay, what do we need to tweak here tweak there to get more appointments to close more business? So it's still the same end goal, but it's just a different strategy to get there because you've done the grunt work. And now the fruits of your labor are they're right in front of you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, how long does it take to get enough data?

Tim McNeil
So it depends on how... I'll back up just real quick. So when it comes to the marketing side, we don't usually run the data on the marketing side, right? So there's a portion of it that we hope that the MSP that we're working with or just an MSP out there, you should be keeping track of that. You should know what's happening there, click through rates and any of that stuff. You should know that. Where a salesperson comes into the fold is the more aggressive they are in the prospecting phase, the more data you can get. How many times, how many calls does it or what's their percentage to get past a gatekeeper? What's their decision maker to appointment ratio? Right. These are all things that as a rep gets more seasoned, those percentages are going to be higher and higher. So I have a long winded answer again. So I apologize about that. But it probably does take a solid six to nine months before you really start seeing the baseline created because there's very much a... It's a bit of a shock on effect in the beginning with any salesperson because you've really got to spray and pray to a certain extent. And then you hate using gut analogies, but it is relevant and then it's a rifle effect, right? Yeah. So you've talked to decision makers who work with an MSP, you know when that contract ends, you know the industry, the size, the radius. And eventually that salesperson goes from more of a straight cold calling/cold prospecting to not only having the marketing campaigns going, but they've had conversations. They know when contracts are coming to an end. They have a warm 250 set up and they're able to just go from what used to be almost a whole 100 % cold calling is now like really 80 % follow ups and 20 % cold calling or cold outreach because they have that list seasoned.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got you. Yeah. So when you talk about calling, it's not all cold calls. It's working-.

Tim McNeil
Oh, yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
-the database that they've slowly built up over time and just staying in front of those people consistently.

Tim McNeil
7-12 times. You have to call somebody 7-12 times before they know you exist.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Or touch them in some way.

Tim McNeil
Yeah, touch points. I should say touch points is really the right phrase.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Is it taking more of that much points now than it used to?

Tim McNeil
Yeah, no doubt. That's where, quite frankly, that is a huge reason behind why Rob and I shut down the lead generation side of what we did because it was just... When we first started in 2013, we could legitimately make 100-150 calls, talk to 10 decision makers and get one appointment. And we were just calling only. Then it went to 200 and then 250. Then you throw in New York City and it could be 400 calls in between appointments. And we've got callers who hate life because all they're doing is calling and getting hung up on them. You've got frustrated clients. So the game has changed. You just have to be smarter about it, right? And that's where marketing to us is so critical when you've got a salesperson on staff. Like if you don't have a marketing presence, you are doing your salesperson a disservice that they probably, I mean, look, some of them will be able to overcome it. But not most.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Marketing gives you additional touch points in the beginning.

Tim McNeil
Gives you a reason. Yeah.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
So yeah, man, I love it. Any last minute thoughts you want to leave us with today?

Tim McNeil
Man, I think probably honestly, what I reiterate what I just said, if you're an MSP and you're looking for a salesperson, you've got to have the system. But most importantly, you can't let that person just show up without leads, without marketing. There's got to be some campaign, some cadence that's going out that will help launch a salesperson that much faster. And it's necessary to be successful mid and long term. It's just the reality.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Where can people learn more about you?

Tim McNeil
Yeah. Best place to check us out is on our website, OSRmanage.com. We're also on LinkedIn. You can either look up sales maturity or OSRmanage on LinkedIn. We tend to post pretty on a pretty regular basis, and those are usually the two best places.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. If you are a managed service provider in the IT Cyberspace, reach out to Tim and the team at OSR Manage. I've had the pleasure of connecting with them multiple times now, and they know what the hell they're doing. So reach out OSRmanage.com. We'll make sure that goes in the show notes. Tim, thank you for taking the time. I appreciate you. Those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you as well. We're talking a lot about sales. Tim mentioned the importance of having a sales process, which frankly, that is one of the only things that I dig into a little bit surface level, not as deep as you do in our process. But sales process is one of the nine revenue roadblocks that is in people's way. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can do that over at RevenueRoadblockScorecard.com. You can also always connect with us over at RialtoMarketing.com, book a free consult. I would be happy to talk to you. Thank you again. Until next time.