The Importance Of Being Clear On What You Want

Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience.

Join Tim Fitzpatrick and Nick Damoulakis for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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The Importance Of Being Clear On What You Want

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing Podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven-figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate growth and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have Nick Damoulakis from Orases with me today. Nick, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Nick Damoulakis
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Man, I got your last name right. I got the company right.

Nick Damoulakis
I was going to get you props. I mean, it is a Greek background, and you nailed it from the beginning. I have high hopes that this will be a great podcast.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I'm looking forward to this. Before we jump into the meat of the interview, I want to ask you a few rapid-fire questions. Are you ready to go?

Nick Damoulakis
All right, let's do it. I got my water right here. I'm ready to go. Let's do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. Very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Nick Damoulakis
What do I do? I'm currently the CEO of Orases. I like to look at myself as someone that sets the vision for the organization, hold people accountable, and chief culture officer here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. What do you guys do?

Nick Damoulakis
I've been doing it for 23 years, by the way.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How long?

Nick Damoulakis
Twenty-three years. Twenty-three years. Yeah, I started on 2000. My wife and I.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You're doing something right, nick. What do you guys do at Orases?

Nick Damoulakis
What do we do? We develop custom software. We don't build on any third-party applications or anything like that. People come with ideas to us and we build what's in their head. The web is like our canvas and we just build with custom applications from apps to ERP, stuff that runs companies, initial leading companies from the NFL to Mom and Pop Shops.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. You make their vision a reality.

Nick Damoulakis
Absolutely. That's what Orases means in ancient Greek, by the way.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Really?

Nick Damoulakis
It means vision. I love it. You sold that for me. Thank you for setting that up. That was a softball.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Sometimes I get things right. What's the most important lesson you've learned?

Nick Damoulakis
I would say throughout time, as a business owner, being your authentic self, not trying to be someone that you're not, being your authentic self. I would also say making sure that you know what that is and so you can be that, which is a journey in its own.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It sure is. It's interesting you bring that up because I interviewed somebody a while back who was talking about being authentic, and she was saying, For the first few years I was running my business, I was struggling. I realized that I wasn't being myself. The minute I flipped that switch and just started being myself and being authentic, things completely changed for me. Thank you for sharing that. Twenty-three years, you've been through some good times and some bad times. Do you have any mantra or motivational saying or a story you want to share with us Yeah.

Nick Damoulakis
I think there's two things that I use. One is what I call the Buddha question. I don't even know where this came from, but when I put these three questions out whenever there's hardship or lessons to be learned, and someone randomly said, This man, you're like Buddha. Now I just call them the Buddha questions, and they're really simple. Whenever there is hardship happening or difficulty or things that are just difficult for anybody, I always ask myself, How did I contribute to the situation? That's the first. What am I supposed to learn from this? Then I ask myself, Now that I have this information, what positive next steps can I take? I keep that as my three rules, my three things that keep me in check. I think it's also a great example for anyone that I work with or even kids. It works great at home as well.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, there's fantastic problem-solving questions, right?

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah. We're all about here of an organization where you can debrief situations and not point fingers. I mean, that's what it's all about. You really have to look at yourself first. That's why the first thing I always say is how did I contribute to this situation? I had to have done something. You have to acknowledge that before moving forward.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, the Buddha questions.

Nick Damoulakis
Buddha question.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You need to coin that. Those are good. I like that.

Nick Damoulakis
So we're starting off strong is what you're saying.

Tim Fitzpatrick
yes we're starting off strong. We're starting off strong. We can only go downhill from here.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah. Thanks.

Embracing Changes in the Business to See Growth

Tim Fitzpatrick
If you had to choose something, what would you say has been the biggest driver of your growth so far?

Nick Damoulakis
The biggest driver? I guess it's all about stories and so forth. The biggest driver, I mean, there's a lot here. That's a loaded question for some reason. It is a loaded question. Especially over 23 years of doing this. I'm going to break it up.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay.

Nick Damoulakis
There's two halfs of our business. The first half, which the driver was a lifestyle business, and I didn't even know it, but it is what it is. For the first half of this organization's life, really it was a lifestyle company that we did great work, we loved what we did, but there was no end game. It was just a lifestyle company. It allowed us to live. It allowed us to have families, buy our homes, start a family, so forth, and travel. It was awesome to see team members start doing that. It was really like a lifestyle company in the beginning, quite honestly. From there, once my kids were a little bit older and I was able to, my wife and I, who both own the company said, Let's start growing this now. Now let's change it. It was a lifestyle company. Now let's change it and grow it. Let's put a little bit more time and energy and growth. The thing I can tell you is it's all about alignment with the people around you, knowing what you want, and once you know what you want and what the goal is, then it's clear to get there. I say that in two half because I think there are some organizations that are just lifestyle companies and there's nothing wrong with that. Acknowledge it for what it is, and it's okay. It's not right or wrong. It's your organization. You get to choose that since you're the CEO. But there is a time in our lives where we're like, Let's now drive it and let's put some energy in that. It's a different ride. To answer that question, it's just knowing authentically what you really want. Once you know what you want, then getting there is a fun journey.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Nick, I love how you answered that question because I think so many of us don't really know exactly what we want. And because of that, we don't get to where we... Yeah, we reach this destination and we're like, Crap, this is not it.

Nick Damoulakis
It's so true and it's okay. A lot of people I work with and talk with, other CEOs, everyone's so worried about the end. The end. Oh, I'm going to grow it. I'm going to grow it. I'm going to give it to the employees. I'm going to ESOP it. I'm going to sell it. There's all these options, right? It's okay as you're starting off and you're just doing what you love and you're happy and it puts a smile on your face. It's okay to have a healthy company that you show up to and it provides a lifestyle. Just acknowledge it for what it is. I didn't know what that really was or that word a lifestyle company was until I started really talking with other CEOs out there and put that vocabulary word to it. It was okay. I realized that there were other people like that too.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, the other thing too is it's a journey. What I want or what you want today may be different a year from now, five years from now, 10 years from now. We just need to constantly have that top of mind so that we can make shifts and course corrections as needed.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, I've been really fortunate to keep a journal throughout the years. It's like, okay, this is what is important to me now, and this is what I want to accomplish this year. Over the course of seeing that over 23 years, it's magical from, hey, I just wanted to find love and get married. Then it turned into, I just want to start a family. It's so cool to go through the life and the journey and just experience it and live every moment present and not worry about the destination, but enjoying the journey. I think some people just miss that nowadays.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's easy to miss it. There's so much noise out there. If you don't create space to eliminate that, you just get lost in it.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah. I agree.

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Deciding to Be an Entirely US-based Company

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's really tough. I know one of the things we talked about in the pre-interview, you guys are committed to having an entirely US-based company.

Nick Damoulakis
Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Actually, before we started recording, you told me that map behind you, people are watching video, you got dots on that map and that's where all your people are which I think is super cool. You obviously made the conscious decision to do that. Does that contribute to your ability to distinguish from competitors? Because I know in the software development space, a lot of overseas stuff. Tell me a little bit about that.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, it's doing what's opposite of everyone else.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You're zigging while they're zagging, right?

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah. When the book came out, the world is flat. Everyone's like, Oh, we got to start shipping out all this software development across seeds because you can get developers for one-fifth of the price or whatever the number was. Didn't matter. What makes us who we are here at Aureus and what we stand by is really the culture that we have here. Culture is something that is very difficult to do when people are around the world. I give credit to companies that have figured that out. I'm a touchy feely person. I like to have presence that people can come together often. I love bringing people together around food and wine. That's what I enjoy. I'm a big fan of play. I think you learn more about a person an hour of play than a year of working with them. That's really what our culture is about. By having everyone in the US, it allows us to have that culture that's a little bit unique from the competitors. That culture leads to more engaged team members, low turnover, and just people come in to work with good connections and meaningful relationships where it's more than just the company, people work for each other. They don't want to let each other down because there's meaningful relationships there. That bonds us together as a company a little differently than the others. When you're dealing with difficult projects, that's when it shines and it's proven in our results.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Do you feel like that philosophy has helped drive growth?

Nick Damoulakis
It is at... At first it could have been a deterrent, but then we just didn't know how to shape it and work with it. Now we have where there is a market with companies that have to do large scale complex problems of complex projects that need US-based only developers, and we go after that niche.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you actively promote in your marketing and sales efforts that you're entirely US-based?

Nick Damoulakis
Absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely. There's nothing wrong with having businesses that outsource across the world. It's a great business model. It's awesome. It's not for everything. We found what we want to go after, the type of work we want to go after. In order to do it well to the ways that we know how, you have to have this really strong bond within the organization and the team members. The way that we have figured it out is by keeping it local, high touch, intimate connections where we know each other. It shows when we get together once a year for a retreat that is just all play, nothing else, you see that and people get energized and it's a great organization like that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, on the fact that you actively promote that in your marketing, it's a differentiator. You can naturally attract people that that is important to, right?

Nick Damoulakis
Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
People that it's not important to them, then they go somewhere else. But you naturally attract the type of clients that you want to work with.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, it's not transactional. And even in sales, when we meet up, we bring the team down and the conversation is, Hey, let's have a good meeting. Let's go out to dinner afterwards. Let's learn about each other. We have something more to talk about other than how to build project X. No project goes smooth. I should say no complex project goes smooth. They all have their ups and downs. What gets people through those ups and downs is having trust with each other where you know the person's competency and you connect with them and you know their character. When you know that, you build trust and you're able to really do things that you never could do them.

Marketing Takes Time

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Okay. We got to talk about marketing. I'm a marketer, so let's talk about marketing and sales a little bit. Can you just tell us how your marketing's evolved? Trace that evolution.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
What's it like initially and what's it like today?

Nick Damoulakis
It's a great question. I'm sure with small businesses, when I say small people that are going from a single entrepreneur to your first 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, so forth. In the early onset, people usually buy the entrepreneur and professional services. There's different scales along the ladder as you move. But the first one is, unfortunately, sometimes people buy that individual. What a person has to figure out the entrepreneur is, How do I scale that so people aren't buying me? I don't mean to say that narcissistically. It's just that's the person who started the company. There's that shift from moving from, hey, you're buying the entrepreneur to you're buying the people and then expandingthat more and more over time as a secret professional services. One thing we do really well, I believe, is always keeping the heart and the soul of what Orases was in 2000. That drive, that made us start it and what made us unique, and share that story and make sure that we hold to those values as we move forward and making sure that they stand true. We're delivering Orases' quality work. That's what it's about as we grow.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you have a sales team now or are you still involved in the sales process?

Nick Damoulakis
No, we got a great sales team. It's a group of three, inbound, outbound sales team that are out there looking for complex projects. Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I think that's one of the first big steps that helps get people out of that owner-led sales and buying the owner instead of the organization.

Nick Damoulakis
It was one piece. I would also say I'd add on to that getting out of operations. You got to make sure you're not involved in day-to-day operations. And then, or it's one or the other usually, then making sure you're not involved with day-to-day sales where you're the one that the whole company relies on, one individual for sales. You can't have that either for scalability.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No, you can't. Depending on what the end goal is, if you want a saleable business, it needs to be able to run without you, right?

Nick Damoulakis
Correct. That's the ultimate goal. That's the ultimate goal for many reasons.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. What's working for you marketing-wise? I know when we initially connected, a lot of your business is repeat, correct?

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. That's a big part. When you're building professional services, usually someone says, do this project. You do it, you're done. Well, now that leads to a feast or type of roller coaster ride for a lot of professional services. What we've done over here strategically is look at the type of work we're doing and how can we create recurring revenue. Recurring revenue being defined work that you doesn't require a team member to do constantly. Then there is work that you do have to do, which are billable hours and professional services and having a healthy mix as you move forward. We believe we crack that code to a healthy percentage where 80% of our work year-over-year is recurring clients. The portion of that 80%, by the way, is recurring revenue for maybe hosting, maintenance agreements, so forth. Then the other portion of it is hourly work. That leaves us with a 20% gap that we have to fill year-over-year as we keep growing. Our goal is nice and steady. We don't want the hockey stick. We don't want any of that with growth. We want a nice, healthy 15, 20 % year-over-year. We find out to be really healthy and professional services that's scalable, it's good for the culture, and it's good work-life balance. I'm not going to say the word easy, but it's easier to keep the soul of the company of what made it special from the beginning.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, to eat at that, I mean, that's still a very healthy growth percentage, but it's not so great that it becomes really difficult to manage. It was the first company I was involved in. We grew an average of 60% a year for nine years. Sometimes stuff was coming so fast you couldn't see it.

Nick Damoulakis
It's really difficult in professional services and those listening to this that do professional services, you're only as good as your team. I mean, it's professional services, people doing the work. We've had 60% year growth and top line revenue. It's a challenge. I'm happy we did it, we experienced it, we got through it. It was good. But it has a challenge to it as well as you really have to have an organized, streamlined method that your hiring methodologies have to be spot on. That alone is a project in its own. You got to be real careful on the people you let in that allow you to grow and hit the growth metrics you want with the client retention that you need and the client experience. We excel at making sure that our clients have a great experience. That's what it's all about, the white glove treatment. If you Google or Orases' reviews, I'll let that speak for itself, but that's what matters.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. You've got that 20% gap. What are you focused on to fill that 20% gap?

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, it's a healthy mix of a lot of things. I'll say this, prior to COVID, prior to COVID, a lot of it was getting out there, shaking hands, meeting people, and we excelled at that. It was something that was natural to us and our team. Then one day it stopped. It stopped. Along with a lot of things, it stopped. It was funny because we got really lucky because starting that year in January, the first thing I said is, Hey, I'm going to start working on SEO on our website. We're going to change everything. We're going to do a whole slew of things differently. I love the marketing aspect of things, love it. I said, Guys, let me go lock myself in a closet and let me just focus on this one problem and let me do it to the best of my abilities. It was huge. I mean, the results, it took time. Redoing a website, getting the messaging right, knowing the target, the ICP, what we're going after, why we're going after, what type of clients we want, where our competitors are at doing a SWOT analysis and really digging in to the minds of people that are looking for the type of work and how they're finding us and what they want to see. It took about eight months of work, I would say. Then all of a sudden, the blogs we were writing, the digital footprint that we put out there started to give us results and they started triculating in. There's a couple of those little fish I call that come in and you reel them in and you land those. Then all of a sudden, whoa, you got yourself a giant whale. It's cool when those whales come in. It's rewarding that when you do SEO or blogging and you put your thoughts out there, and a year later, someone reads about a healthcare dashboard system of a process that you put together that you wrote a year ago, and it's giving you one of your largest leads a year later. It just keeps feeding you. That's the type of marketing I really like. I like putting stuff like that out there. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I want to pull out a couple of things here because this is really good. So started focusing on SEO, you touched on the fact. So you're writing content, you're planting seeds. Some of these seeds grow. A lot of seeds. Some of them don't. A lot of them don't. But the ones that do grow can become very fruitful. You mentioned it was after that eight-month mark. For some people, it's even longer than that. But the thing that I always like to pull out of this is long term. As humans, we're wired to think short term, like short term gratification. And yet so many people make the mistake with marketing. They start doing things and 30 days later they're like, It's not working. Let's shift gears. They don't give things a long enough time to start seeing progress.

Nick Damoulakis
And it was really... Again, I don't want to sit here and say I have a lot of these answers, but I was so confident that one, I believed in what needed to get done, and then two, I did enough research, which really wasn't that difficult and got pitched by so many different companies, so I got educated, that I started understanding what the metrics of success were short term that would lead to long term results. That's really important. So what are the short term key indicators that as long as they were triculating up, I knew that something would hit. And you just got to believe in it. And it's tough because in marketing, you're sitting there, you put a strategy down. And to me, marketing is nothing more than a bunch of micro experiments that you keep trying and trying and some hit, some miss, but you got to keep trying. That to me is how I do marketing. Yep.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No, you're totally right.

Nick Damoulakis
And then if the business isn't getting a ton of new logos and sales, you can start getting this pressure. And this pressure is like this monster over you that's like, How much longer do we got to wait? I mean, it's been a quarter. It's been two quarters. It's been three quarters. Then it's, Do you know what you're doing?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, exactly.

Nick Damoulakis
Then you start batting yourself and it's really hard. I don't know. For me, I was able to do it because it was my own money as the owner of the company and so forth. But if I was a team member reporting to a CEO, it would be really difficult. It would be really difficult.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Well, you highlighted something here, nick, that is super important because one of the big mistakes people make is they invest and then a year later they're like, Oh, my God, I just spent 50 grand or 100 grand or whatever it is. They're like, This didn't work. One of the reasons they get to that place knowing that a lot of this work takes time, they have not identified those waypoints or those leading indicator metrics like, What are we looking for at month three? What are we looking for at month six and nine? If you've got those outlined ahead of time, then you know whether you're heading in the right direction. You can head things off the past, and you're not asking that question at 12 months. At three months, you're like, Hey, we're not here. Why?

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, I agree.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Huge mistake. Thank you for bringing that up because that's how you can help avoid some of these huge missteps. They cost of time and money.

Nick Damoulakis
It's hard because you're spending so much money in it. Hope is not a strategy.

Tim Fitzpatrick
No.

Nick Damoulakis
I said earlier marketing is like these micro experiments, but you have to believe in what you're doing, whatever the micro experiment is. You got to believe. You got to do it 100 %. Then you got to have checks and balances as you go. The easy thing with marketing, especially SEO, it is really easy, really, really easy to monitor and watch the progress. And it's super easy. It's either going up or down. It's very simple. I'll share this, what is success when you're looking at SEO showing up on the top of Google for a certain word and the whole thing of finding the right words, blah, blah, blah. And sometimes it only takes one. The one word that we stumbled across through a micro experiment where we were probably six months in of okay results, we'll say, the hope results, the ones that say, Yeah, it's looking good. Keep doing what you're doing. Right? The thing that SEO hate hearing. You know what you're doing is going to work any minute now. Well, what ended up happening that we found is there, with words out there, finding the needle in the haystack, the words that are really, really important of things that you do that no one else is going after, no one else is going after. We happened to come across a word that no one was coming after. It was custom ERPs. If you know technology, ERPs are multi-million dollar projects. To do a custom one is pretty crazy and really unique if you have to do it. But there is a niche of people that need it for multiple reasons. No one was going after the word. All I had to do was write one blog about it and we'd be top of the list within a week. We did it. That month we got one of our largest leads that came in and we closed it three months later. Real quick turnaround everything all by following the SEO strategy. That's pretty standard.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Thank you for sharing that because it's a great example. I don't know, you know this better than I do. But custom ERP, it may not have a ton of search volume.

Nick Damoulakis
No, none. Very little.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But the people that are searching for that pretty high buying intent keyword. And the dollar value associated with one of those projects is extremely high. You don't need that much volume. If you convert some of those, it makes it all worth it. Holistically, you've got to look at the keywords from an SEO standpoint and how much intent is there? What is going to happen with this keyword overall? And it's a great point, right? There are opportunities in any business. You just got to find those keywords where there is opportunity and you start to create content around it. Like you said, a lot of what you do is not going to work, and that's okay, but the ones that you do that work make everything else worth it.

Nick Damoulakis
You just got to experiment. You got to keep at it. You got to find joy in the work of doing it too. Once you do that, you're off to the races.

You Got To Let Go

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, absolutely. As you expand, what challenges are you facing and what are you doing to overcome those?

Nick Damoulakis
Let's see. We're hitting about 62 FTS. We're still a small company, going from 50 people here, and hopefully in the next three years, we'll be at 100. What are the challenges as we grow in that part? First, I would definitely say, the saying that I always heard from CEOs when we were much smaller was, Oh, man, I'm working in the business, not on the business. I kept hearing this term all the time. The reality is, especially when you're a smaller company, you're doing both. I mean, it is what it is. I have not met a successful company that really digs at it. That's a great company that's sustainable and awesome, but the CEO isn't grinding in the business. But something flips at a certain point where you have the right team members and the right seats at the organization working on the same mission with the same values. There is a point that happens maybe when you're 30, maybe it's 50, maybe it's 60 people where the CEO can start coming up for breadth now and actually start working on the business. For different CEOs, it's different. But I'm starting to peek out of there a little bit. I'm actually starting to have that breadth at that time to actually stand up and look at things from a different perspective, have higher level conversations with different organizations that bring me different, that enlighten me differently, and taking that enlightenment, giving it to our leadership team to execute on or to have discussions on. That's probably one of the biggest things that I see that's a little different now and the growth challenge is releasing, letting go, which is the greatest feeling in the world because that means that you brought people up and they rose to the occasion and you're part of that and you did that. That's probably one of the most rewarding feelings ever. But you got to let go. You got to let go. You got to let others be in that spotlight and make those decisions, good or bad, and coach them along the process.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I really like that because if you want to build a business that runs without you, you got to let go, right?

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, you got to let go.

Tim Fitzpatrick
You can't work on the business unless you create space for yourself to do it. One of the things that... Look, I run into this, a lot of us run into this where it's really hard to make progress if your schedule is packed to the gills. If you're just busy, you're never going to really get where you want to go. You've got to be able to create space so that you have that time to really think about what you need to do to get where you want to go.

Nick Damoulakis
Correct.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I like that. You're getting used to delegating.

Nick Damoulakis
Well, I always had this little rule where if something came into my mailbox, it's like, Who could I delegate this to first? Then my second question I ask myself is, Whose job am I doing right now? Sometimes I do find joy doing little mundane things because a lot of the work I do takes a year or longer to see it from beginning to end. I know that my issue is I like doing little things that I get instant gratification of because it brings little joy. Sometimes it's cool to, for me, I think, seeing the owner of a company unloading the dishwasher, big deal. I don't do it for that reason. I do it because it brings me a little bit of joy and it makes me humble to remember the days when I had to do that. It's a good reminder sometimes. You got to let go of them.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
This has been a great conversation. I have enjoyed this and I know people are going to get a ton of value from it. I hope so. I want to ask you one last question, which is knowing what you know now anything you would do differently?

Nick Damoulakis
I don't think there is and I don't mean it's terrible when I say that I've been very fortunate. It's the journey. It's the ups and downs. We've had some terrible downs, great lessons learned, but you have to go through that. There's no fast forward jump from where I was in 2000 to today. That doesn't exist. And if it did exist, I wouldn't want it because I would be a different person. I really enjoyed the journey along the way, the ups and downs, the learning moments, the hardships. I always tell my wife some of the happiest moments in my life was when we started the company and we would scrape up quarters out of the couch to pay for a pizza. Those were great moments, right? Yeah. You'll never get those back. It's just enjoying the journey along the way, being present in the moment. Actually, I don't have any regrets. It's been a fun journey.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Because you work with your wife, do you find yourself taking work home a lot, talking to each other about it? Or are you pretty good about like, Hey, we're not going to talk about this right now.

Nick Damoulakis
I probably would have to bring her into the conversation for that, but I'll say that it was very yin-yang. We do two different things that fit perfectly together to make a whole. I'm big picture. I'm out there. I'm a different. If you do a predictive index on me, I'm a Maverick. I'm way over to one extreme. Okay. Well, she's on the other side, right? She's extreme detail, and you need the two. I cannot sit there and look at a 10-page legal document to start a company and execute all the things flawlessly. We'd never be able to do that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But she does.

Nick Damoulakis
She does it with a smile. She does it with joy. You need the two. I've been really fortunate along the process to find someone early on where we were able to build something together, be able to find that it was the right fit on top of that. I mean, these things are just the rarity of this ever happening to anyone is so rare. How could I not sit here and tell you I don't have any regrets on anything? It's so unique and awesome and we're just blessed in so many ways. But it did come with a lot of hard work.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it always comes with a lot of hard work.

Nick Damoulakis
It comes with a lot of hard work.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, even those people we see that were like, Oh, my God, they were an overnight success. No, there was just a lot of stuff you never saw.

Nick Damoulakis
Yeah, I love that graphic that's out there, the glacier and it shows the top of the glacier and it's like this is what success looks like to people. Then 98% of the glaciers underneath the water of all the hard work, the grit, the staying up all night, all the things that it took, the risk. That's what I'm wired for. I love that stuff.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's awesome. I love it, Nick. Thank you so much, man. Where can people learn more about you?

Nick Damoulakis
Man, people can learn more about us by just googling Orases, O-R-A-S-E-S. You can read about our reviews online, you could read Glassdoor and learn about our culture, or just go to orases.com and read what we have to say about ourselves.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I love it. I'm guessing there's not too many Nick Ds on LinkedIn.

Nick Damoulakis
Damoulakis. Feel free to reach out on LinkedIn if anyone hits me up. I love sharing. I love sharing stories. I love helping. I truly do. So always open for conversations, building new relationships and sharing. That's what it's all about.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I love it. Nick, thank you. Please go reach out on the website. We'll make sure all that info is in the show notes. Nick, thanks for taking the time.

Nick Damoulakis
Awesome.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Those that are watching, listening, thank you for doing so. Nick shared a ton about his journey. We're all about what you can do to accelerate revenue growth. If you want to accelerate growth, you got to remove your revenue roadblocks. If you want to know which of the nine are slowing down your growth, you can do that over revenueroadblockscorecard.com. You can also always connect with us over at rialtomarketing.com. Nick, thank you, audience, thank you. Until next time, take care.


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About the author, Tim Fitzpatrick

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