Thinking Outside The Box To Find & Hire Great People

Thinking Outside The Box To Find & Hire Great People

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth and marketing shouldn't be difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am really excited to have with me Katie Spadoro from CYB Human Resources. Katie, thanks for taking the time.

Katie Spadoro
Absolutely. I'm super excited to be here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, I am excited to dig into this. A lot of these revenue acceleration series interviews I've been doing lately have been with a lot of IT folks, managed service providers, cyber people, IT consultants. So I'm excited to switch it up and talk to somebody from HR today.

Katie Spadoro
Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So before we jump in, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions. Are you ready to do this?

Katie Spadoro
I'm going to do my best.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Well, it's my job to make you look as good as possible. Very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Katie Spadoro
Small business human resources outsourced, and we have been in business about eight and a half years.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Did you own another business before that?

Katie Spadoro
Not. CYB Human Resources is my first business.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. So did you work for somebody before that?

Katie Spadoro
Yes. I did inhouse HR at a couple of different companies prior to starting CYB.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Before you said this working for somebody is for the birds.

Katie Spadoro
It's tough. Yeah, exactly. And HR specifically, it's definitely different.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So in that eight and a half years, what's the most important learning lesson you've had?

Katie Spadoro
Oh, my gosh, there's so many for sure. But I think the biggest one for me is that trusting the experts really upfront, understanding, knowing what you don't know is the number one most important thing in entrepreneurship to me. So being aware of my strengths and working in my strengths areas and my areas of genius and outsourcing and hiring experts in areas that are not my area of genius, like accounting, for example.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I had a conversation with somebody, I can't remember. It was one of these interviews, and I wish I could remember who it was. He was basically talking about like, look, you can take the time to learn all these things yourself, or you can pay somebody and get their way freaking faster. Which I think can be really eye opening for people. Look, I've made that mistake plenty of times. Once we know exactly what we need, we're far better off hiring somebody to help us get there faster. It's going to cost us money, but it's not going to take as much time and time is money.

Katie Spadoro
Time is so much more. It's just to me at this point, time is so much more valuable. Honestly, my time has spent so much better in not doing accounting, for example. I could probably learn it if I spent five years. But I don't have time to do that or interest, to be honest.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Eight and a half years, been ups, been downs. Do you have any mantra, motivational saying that you say to yourself or share with your team to push through those times when you're hitting roadblocks?

Katie Spadoro
Yeah. I think for me, go to is just doing the next right thing as long as this is not something that's imploded the business and people are going to make mistakes. So the only way to continue to grow and learn from them is just doing the next right thing in every area of life.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Some of the best advice is the simplest right? It's just so simple, right? One of my mentors, and I don't know where he got this from, but he always talked about focus on the next measurable step. It's really similar. It's so easy for us as entrepreneurs to get overwhelmed because we've got all these things we want to do. But damn, just focus on the next measurable step, the step you can measure so that you know when you get there, and then you can focus on the next one after that and after that, and you make progress.

Katie Spadoro
I love that. I think that another portion of basically what you're saying is on my worst, absolute worst day when I'm so down and nothing is happening right and whatever, I do at least one thing, like you said, that's measurable to move my business forward, whether that is one email, one phone call, one thing. So when I go to bed at night, I say, you know what? It was an awful day. It was terrible, but I did one thing to move us forward in the right direction. So I love it as well.

Work With Companies that Fit Your Culture

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's a great one because we can all send one extra email, right? Or do one little thing, and at least you can come back and look at that and go, you know what? That was a win for the day. So one of the things we talked about in the pre interview, you were talking about that you're picky about who you work with from a client standpoint. What types of clients do you choose to work with? And how has doing this helped you grow your business?

Katie Spadoro
So at this point, we choose to work with companies that are essentially a fit for us on a culture basis. I mean, companies that really are trying to do the right thing. They really do want to grow their business. I am grateful every single day that I have that opportunity at this point because when you first start out, you don't necessarily have the choice to who you work with. It's like, this person is going to pay you to do X, Y, and Z. And you're like, sure, I need the referral. I need the review. I need the money. And so getting to point where I'm really able to say, listen, this is probably not the best fit for what we do or who we are as a team is really great. So small businesses, we really specialize, tend to 60, 70 employees that are growing and that are excited for that growth and really trying to do the right thing for themselves, avoiding pitfalls that come out of nowhere. Sometimes you're just like, people call me and they'll say, This is what happened, and I was doing this, and I tried to do this, and I just wanted to do the right thing. And they really do mean that. But then they're not necessarily putting the HR component into it. For example, things can be retaliatory or retaliation without understanding what that means. So moving somebody's location, for example, that made a complaint about harassment, you may have been trying to do the best thing you possibly can because you care about that employee. But the reality is the employee now has to drive an extra 40 minutes round trip to work. So from the outside looking in with an HRI, you're saying that could be seen as retaliation. I know you're trying to do the right thing, but we want to avoid that at all costs.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So since you've been in this position where you're a lot pickier about who you work with, have you found that your retention has gone up?

Katie Spadoro
I believe so. I think that working with the right people, I mean, when you are connecting with people on a deeper level than just trying to sell something to everybody, really niching down and specializing in a specific area. For us, it's growing small businesses. I think that that relationship grows and something that we do very well, I'd like to say, is the one on one support that we give to clients. We really ingratiate ourselves into that client's day to day life and answer their questions and be there as their support. So I think that that has also, hand in hand, helped with retention for sure.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Does it also make it easier for you when you're having sales conversations to just be like, they're a good fit or they're not?

Katie Spadoro
Absolutely. That happens within the first few minutes. Up front, we do a quick 20 minute call, and it's very easy for me to hear someone who is just calling us because they think they need us and they're going to hire us and then tell us how to do our job versus people who come on and they're like, Listen, we understand the benefit of HR and why it's so important and we want to learn more. We want to do right by our employees. It's a total different vibe that you get in that initial call. So yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick
This is one of the things that we talk about when we do ideal client work with our clients is really honing in on who those people are and what they look like because it gives you a benchmark to measure people against. And you can... Look, people aren't always going to check every box, but you can see how many boxes they're checking and go, Gosh, you are a great fit, or you know what? This probably isn't going to be the best fit. And when you say no, not only are you doing yourself and your team a favor, you're doing them a favor too, because you're not going to serve them at a high level. They're not going to be happy, and you're far better off just referring them and connecting with someone that's a better fit.

Katie Spadoro
Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Agreed. But like you said, it can take a little bit to get to that place. You certainly need to have some experience. But I think the faster you can hone in on who those ideal people are, the easier it is. The other thing that I find from a marketing perspective is the clearer you are on who your ideal clients are, the easier it is to start to create, I call it an ideal client GPS, but that list of where those people are. Because when you have that list, it ensures that you're going to fish where the fish are. You're not wasting your time and marketing dollars being somewhere that's just far too broad, hoping that somebody's going to bite.

Katie Spadoro
Something in that area that we really learned, and I've learned so many things the hard way, which is when you're running a business, it's just you try to remain stoic all the time. But it's like, why do I have to learn everything this difficult way? Why can't I listen to people? But we're in a unique space, and sometimes you really do have to bump your own head to really learn it. When you're referring to the marketing area, something that was a huge game changer for us was when we first started out, we thought, hey, we probably should be using SEO in the area and using words like terminating an employee and progressive discipline, and these words that are so HR focused that the only people that are searching for those words are HR people. No one who owns a small business with 10 employees is googling, what is the progressive discipline document? How do I terminate an employee? So having to reset, all of a sudden we were thinking and we're saying, they're probably just googling, how do I fire this guy? That's what they're googling. So having to reset our expectations and the way that we present what we do is really, really important in that area for us, for sure.

Using Social Media and Content To Generate Leads

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Getting into your ideal client's head. It can be really hard for us to think objectively about that because we're just so close to it, which leads me into the next thing I wanted to chat with you about, because I know as the owner, you're wearing multiple hats. One of those hats is the marketing hat. What are you doing to market your business and what are some of the challenges that you're coming up against trying to manage it?

Katie Spadoro
Yeah. So we do a lot of social media. And again, this is a learning process as to what area and where your ideal client is. And for us, it's LinkedIn. We have a lot of business owners and individuals on LinkedIn that are either great referral partners or people that partner with small businesses that can utilize our services as an add on. So that I think is the first thing determining where, like you said. And then the marketing side of things on the content side, I actually enjoy doing the content side because I do feel like the real life knowledge and experience that I've had working with these businesses over the past almost nine years is a great way to relate to other individuals and let them know they're not alone in what they're experiencing that many other people have gone through this same process. But yeah, we do social media, a lot of that. We've done, like I said, focusing on LinkedIn, our regular blog posting the best we can. And I think that as we continue to grow, I mean, the content side of stuff, I've gotten a lot more comfortable and feeling good about the ability to get our message out there and what we do through video. But we can always do better. We can always continue to learn. So I'm excited to see what's next for us, for sure.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How do you stay on top of it?

Katie Spadoro
Right now, we use scheduling tools for that. We are actually using Zoho, and they have a social media scheduler as part of their program that they have in place. But eventually, our goal is obviously to bring in someone who's able to manage that, oversee it, measure it. Those are things that I'm not focused in on. The actual measuring tells me, and it'll say, This post is the best post. I'm like, That's great. And then I don't really know what to do with that data. So bringing in an expert, back to what I said at the beginning, would be our next step there to really evaluate what posts are making sense to people, what is triggering something in their brain to understand the importance of HR.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So you're doing the activity, but you're not necessarily measuring it and then taking action based on that?

Katie Spadoro
Yes. In that area of the business, yes. And I think that obviously there's areas where we focus primarily and there's all these places to grow. The good news is that when we do bring someone in to help with this, we have so much data at this point that they're going to be able to really be able to look at that and understand it a little bit further and give me information back. Getting something started, I think is really important. I think the consistency has always been something that people in marketing have said, and I agree. So whether that's once a month, once a quarter, whatever, just being consistent and really targeting in on your audience.

Tim Fitzpatrick
There's no doubt about it, Katie. I mean, consistency with marketing is super important. It's where a lot of people fall flat. They start, but then they just can't keep it up. And what you're dealing with now is not uncommon either when the owner is trying to oversee marketing. It's hard when you have other things that you're doing along with that. And it's hard when marketing is not your go to area of expertise either. So that can be a challenge as well. But it's also super important because if you don't have marketing bringing in leads and sales, converting it to clients, who cares?

Katie Spadoro
Yes. I mean, and I do love it. That's something that I never thought I would learn so much about. And during COVID, for example, I had friends that do marketing and I said, Listen, you really need to get your face on a camera. You need to be on the website. You need to be there. And I was so pushed back. I would push back consistently. And then COVID hit and I was sitting around and I'm like, Well, what else am I going to do? If I'm not going to do it now, I'm never going to do it. So I guess I'm going to learn how to create videos and content and connect with small business owners out there. So I mean, I love that portion of it. But yes, in the very near future, I'll be passing off a lot of the scheduling and the consistency because there are too many balls in the air right now.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Well, I love the fact that you got into video. Video, from a content standpoint, you can leverage it because you can break it apart. You can do the audio. You can transcribe it. There's so many different ways you can leverage that content. It sounds like you've just created that habit. And once you've got the habit, you're not struggling to create the video content Not.

Katie Spadoro
As much for sure. My mom was an actress and my dad for a long time was involved in politics and he's an attorney. These two individuals have been on camera for as long as I can remember. I would say, listen, if I can't do this, nobody can do this. I mean, I have some pretty good experience watching and seeing these things in real life, learning how to do it. So that was the kickstart. But yeah, I mean, there's still times where I'm like, I don't really want to put myself out there like that. But it is what it is. I mean, we have some great information to share and who else is going to do it?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, just do it. One of the other big roadblocks I think a lot of people have with content too is like, what am I going to post about? And what I have found is that that might exist in your head for five, 10 minutes. Once you start actually looking at it, there's no shortage of content content. It's like, what are people asking you? What are your clients asking you? What are potential prospects asking you? That's an easy place to start.

Katie Spadoro
Real life scenarios.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Right. You go into social media groups and see what they're posting about. There's so many places you can go to get content. And what I do is when I get ideas, I just put them in my note taking software. I have a note and I just put them there. And at any given point in time, I have at least 15 to 20 topics. And so when it's time to shoot some videos, I just pull up that list and I shoot them and that's it.

Katie Spadoro
Yeah, for sure.

Thinking Outside The Box To Find & Hire Great People

Tim Fitzpatrick
Not difficult once you get in the habit. Now, what is difficult is finding and hiring the right people. You brought this up. So many people are talking about this. You're not in the same boat by yourself. What are you doing right now to try and overcome this?

Katie Spadoro
We are in the space and people sometimes there is a confusion between a recruiting agency, for example, and a human resources team. Recruiting is a part of human resources. But yes, but what we do really with clients very often is building out their hiring process, building out their benefits packaging, setting them aside and making them stand out from other companies that are doing something similar that is more attractive. Salary analysis, benefit analysis. And it's not easy. It's very hard and challenging to find the right person, number one. We're in a virtual world. We're completely virtual. I have a kickass team, excuse my language. They're virtual and they're amazing and they're able to monitor their own work and they're able to stick with the program. And I know what they're doing and my goal for them is for them to be successful, have a work life balance. I don't need to be standing over them every single day. I need to trust them. That is a big part of our process is when we interview them, we have that in the back of our mind. Is this somebody that we feel like would be successful working virtually on their own without me standing over them, seeing what they're doing every second of the day. And then something else that actually has just rolled out for HR is an apprenticeship program, which is really cool. And they did not have this in place for years, but it was perfect timing for us. And so we are now sponsored, essentially, in partnering with Sherin, Society of Human Resources. And we have our apprenticeship program in place. So what that is is that for a very long time, people realized it's very hard to get into HR. So if you don't know HR, no one is going to hire you. And then you aren't hired, you're never going to learn HR. So that was similar to having an apprentice in construction. They need to really learn on the job how to handle these things. You can read in the book how to terminate an employee, but until you've seen it and experienced it for yourself and the emotions and the energy, you have no idea. So it's really giving an opportunity for us to have an awesome pipeline of new, fresh human resources professionals that are excited about what we're doing. And from there, they're really growing alongside us and they'll be certified in HR. And then our goal is to hopefully have them join our certified HR generalist team and work with clients as we continue to expand. So that's become a great pipeline of awesome talent.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So that's the apprenticeship program through the association, and they basically connect you with people that have gone through their program that are now looking for work. Is that right?

Katie Spadoro
No, we actually are the ones that are we post the position ourselves, and then the position is posted as an HR apprentice. Something that has been It's not easy to retain talent when you're paying. You don't have any experience in HR. It's really a low level admin position to start. And then the goal is that you're making a lot of money because you're kicking butt and you're helping clients avoid lawsuits. But it takes time to get there. So what the apprenticeship offers is if you stick with this for two years, that after two years, they're able to sit for their Sherm exam, which is awesome because prior to that, they had to be at least three to five years of experience in HR before they were even able to sit for it. So there's a carrot at the end of the two years dangling, and that's really cool. And it's increased our retention and our ability to hire because that's really a huge benefit for these young professionals that want to get into HR.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So you're finding good people. There's an investment in it on your part. But what you found is that you're retaining a lot of those people and they're becoming long term team members.

Katie Spadoro
There's a benefit. There's a pro and con of hiring green individuals. Obviously, they're not going to know a lot of what they're doing and how they're doing it and things like that. But as long as they're coachable, I'm very comfortable with hiring somebody who's green and excited and coachable because that means they're not coming in here with all these bad habits, doing the wrong thing that they've been doing for the past however long. And they're open to learning and they're giving feedback and they're telling us, hey, I don't understand how this works. So on the marketing side of things, that's another thing that's beneficial is when we run her through the lessons that we do, if she has trouble understanding what we're talking about, it's a little a red flag for us. Like, wait a minute, if we're advertising what we do, utilizing these words, then not only is this apprentice getting confused or not understanding, neither is the general public.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. This really points to, one, I think it's a little bit of outside the box thinking to solve the problem. But two, it's also that you're open minded enough to go down this path and thinking long term. Too many of us think short term. It's like, Oh God, this is going to be too much work. I just can't do this. But this is helping you solve part of that struggle. I want to add to this. I know I've talked about this in other episodes because this this problem has come up. But there's also a marketing side to finding, hiring, recruiting good people, too, that a lot of people overlook And there's two sides to this. There's the company marketing, you're marketing to the general public, right? And then there's also your marketing to potential team members. What are people doing when they see an ad for a company? They're going to their website and they're checking them out. If your message, your website is not where it needs to be, that's not going to instill confidence. And in people to want to apply to a job, right?

Katie Spadoro
Absolutely, you're correct.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So your overall marketing is super important in recruiting. And then on the backside, when you look at the messaging that you're using to recruit people, right? It's no different than your message to an ideal client. Do you understand what your ideal team members want and look for in a job? What language do they use? Your job posts. You know this better than I do, but I see this, too. It's not real difficult to differentiate your job post for most. Most of them suck.

Katie Spadoro
Absolutely. There's two sides of that, too, because sometimes I read a job post and I am like, that isn't you cannot say that. They're saying the craziest things and I'm like, That is definitely not allowed. But yes, being creative and involving your team, for example, in the post, what is your favorite part about working here? Let's get that out there. Let's talk about the benefits, let's talk about all of these cool things and create it in a way that they're excited to have the opportunity to work here.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Not losing sight of the marketing side of it, I think is super important. But I love the fact that you're doing... How long have you been doing this apprenticeship program?

Katie Spadoro
I want to say a little under two years. Yeah. It's not easy to set up and we got very lucky. My head HR generalist was the one that when it first came out, she saw it and she said, Hey, this could be cool. I'd love to do this. Let's check this out. We looked it up. We were very happy to do it. Very early on board when they first rolled it out. They're still building it out and we're learning through the process as well. But it's really cool. If that's an option, another thing is colleges posting in schools, things like that where you're able to bring somebody on who may not know everything but is excited to be in that industry and wants to learn from you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Is Sherm giving you guys resources to help these people? How is that structured?

Katie Spadoro
They're giving us some outlines, some lessons. The general outlines and lessons are built and provided by them, but they are not given to our team by them. We internally are providing those trainings to our team however often it is. I believe it's once a week at this point that we're doing the regular trainings. Then we have to complete some documentation. So it is a little administrative work on our end. We have to submit the time and the hours on the job training, that stuff. Very similar to apprenticeships in other areas, other industries.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But the interesting thing is, whether there's an apprenticeship program for your industry or not, as a business owner, you could take this same concept and create your own, especially in industries like yours or a lot of the IT people that I've been talking to. They're hiring level 1, level 2 techs. Very similar where if you're hiring the same type of people over and over again, there's no reason that you couldn't create your own curriculum and structure and framework to follow where whether it's a year program or a two year program or whatever it is, create that material. And then guess what? Like you said, where are you finding these people? Well, they're people that are people that are, depending on the job, it could be you're recruiting at high schools, you're recruiting at colleges. Gosh, I think you could be pretty successful finding some great people.

Katie Spadoro
I mean, an internship programs, for example, are very that area. Like creating a paid, obviously, internship program and you as a business owner, for example, us, and I don't want to misquote what we are having to pay for tests and things like that. But if there's testing, for example, offering that and advertising that and marketing that in your job description, to these individuals because that's worth it. And that builds loyalty and that builds team support, and it's really exciting for them. So they're not just at another job that's going to go nowhere. They know that, hey, if I stick with this for two years, this company is going to pay for me to take an exam, to take this test or this license or whatever it is. So that's a really cool opportunity as well.

Tim Fitzpatrick
They can see a path.

Katie Spadoro
Yes, huge. And that's so important.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. So looking back at your experience so far with CYB, what are the top 2-3 things that instantly stand out for you?

Katie Spadoro
It's exciting. It's fun to work with. It's nonstop. But it's not for everyone. I know that it's not for everybody. And you have to be willing to flex and ride or remain stoic the best you can. I think the second thing that stands out for me is being a sponge. And that's something that I say pretty often is when I first started out, I had coffee with whoever would have coffee with me. Right when I started the business, it didn't matter what you did, who you were. I was willing to go have 20, 30 minutes coffee, let's chat. And I would leave that conversation with either this is something awesome. I'm going to look into this. I'm going to do some research. Or that person was not the most normal, and I'm probably never going to do what they just said. But either way, it was a blessing or a lesson and I learned from the process. And then I think other than that, the third thing, like I mentioned earlier is hiring experts. I wish that I had hired experts sooner in certain areas of my business that would have prevented tons of just time and energy and fees and costs associated with trying to undo things that I thought I had under control. So we've obviously passed that point now. So now when anything comes up, I'll look up what are we looking for? And then I say, okay, who do I know that specializes in this area? Let's call right now.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Being a sponge really resonates with me. The first business that I was in was a wholesale distribution company, and I worked with my dad for over 10 years. But because I got in so young, my dad knew so many people in the business that he had known for 20, 30 years. And it was not uncommon for me to be the youngest person in the room by at least 15 or 20 years. I just remember fondly those times just sitting in the room just listening and just writing stuff down, paying attention to just how they thought, how things flowed. It was just an amazing opportunity to learn. I think as we get further along in our businesses, we will be well served if we can always stay in that frame of mind where it's like, I don't know everything. I can learn new things every day because dang there's sometimes you're just shocked at what you learn from a person that you never would have expected to learn something from initially.

Katie Spadoro
100 %.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that. Continue being a sponge. I will continue.

Katie Spadoro
I love it. I mean, the love for learning is something that I feel like that's a really important part of entrepreneurship is learning and being open to that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
One of my early mentors said, The day I stop learning is the day I die. And that always, Manny said that, and I've never forgotten that. So what's next? What are your goals for?

Katie Spadoro
Well, This year has spent been spending a lot of time on systematizing and automation. And that's something that was one of our big initiatives for this past year. And we've gone through the entrepreneur struggle and the utilization of multiple apps and the utilization of things connecting with Zappier and all of that. And obviously, we've gotten to the point where that's just not functioning at the level that we needed to function at. So automating everything, the build out of our software is currently in process. We're building out that portion as well to really create a more seamless experience for our clients working alongside our team and continue to grow. I mean, we're continuing to grow smartly in the area of hiring, for example. Like I said, I have an amazing team right now. I have some amazing outsourced experts that I work with regularly, and they keep me on track and they keep me accountable. And it's really important because sometimes I just don't know and I need help and some redirection as to what do we do now? So that's what's next.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Anything you do differently other than hire experts faster?

Katie Spadoro
That's the biggest one. For sure. I guess part of that is not listening to the chatter of people telling you, do this, do that, this is what you should do. It's risky to listen to somebody who is not an expert that does not have an engagement letter signed by you that is just telling you what they think. So that is very important to make sure that you focus in on what needs to be done and find somebody that can help you build it out right the first time. That would be the biggest advice I have.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome. I love it, Katie. Where can people where can people learn more about you?

Katie Spadoro
cybhumanresources.com is our website on LinkedIn. And I see Katie Spadoro is what it's under. And yeah, those are our biggest ones. We are on Instagram and Facebook, but the biggest areas would be our website and on LinkedIn as well.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. We will make sure that the links for that are in the show notes, but you can connect with Katie directly, Katie Spadoro on LinkedIn. And please reach out. If you've got HR questions, reach out to Katie. I've talked to Katie multiple times. I love what you guys are doing. I love how you guys have packaged what you do as well. It's simple. It's easy for people to understand. I think it makes a ton of sense. So if you need human resources, help go reach out to Katie.

Katie Spadoro
I'm here for it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Thank you for the time, Katie. I appreciate you taking it. Those that are watching, listening, I appreciate you as well. We've been talking about Katie's learning lessons along the way to growing, accelerating growth. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can do that over at revenueroadblockscorecard.com. It takes less than five minutes, so go check that out. And if you want to connect with me, you can always do that over at our website, rialtomarketing.com. Be happy to jump on a discovery call and help you push through some of those marketing roadblocks you're experiencing. So thank you again. Until next time, take care.