Episode 67 - What Do Most People Get Wrong About Sales

What Do Most People Get Wrong About Sales

If you own a business, you may not think of yourself as a marketer or a salesperson. Unless you hire out for these roles, make no mistake about it, you ARE both! That’s why we’ve got Dave Lorenzo from The Dave Lorenzo Company with us today to chat about what most people get wrong about sales and much more!

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What Do Most People Get Wrong About Sales



Tim Fitzpatrick
If you own a business, you may not think of yourself as a marketer or a salesperson. But here's the thing. If you haven't hired out for these rules, make no mistake about it, you are both. And that is why we have a special guest with us today. And we are going to dig into what most people get wrong about sales. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe marketing shouldn't be difficult. All you need is the right plan. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I'm super excited to have Dave Lorenzo from The Dave Lorenzo Company with me. Dave, welcome and thanks for being here, man.

Dave Lorenzo
Tim, thanks for having me. It's wonderful to be with you again.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's nice to switch sides of the mike this time. So I'm looking forward to this. I am not a natural-born salesperson. So you're going to take me to school and everybody else that is watching and listening. So I am looking forward to it. Before we jump into that, get some rapid-fire questions for you just to help us get to know you a little bit better. Are you ready to jump in?

Dave Lorenzo
Let's go.

Tim Fitzpatrick
OK. When you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

Dave Lorenzo
I spend my time doing two things when I'm not working, training my kids, coaching my kids and their extracurricular activities and I'm training dogs. We got a couple of COVID puppies and it's been a great family project to consistently work on the dog's behavior. And it's absolutely amazing how impactful having animals has been during the last 15, 16 months. So we spend a lot of time with the dogs. I spend a lot of time with my kids.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Training the dogs is never done. You let your guard down and they'll take that into that mile back from you. So, yeah, it is never done. What's your hidden talent?

Dave Lorenzo
So I think probably my biggest hidden talent is being able to connect with people on an emotional level. One of the things that I teach people and one of the things that I learned to do in my own life was just connect with people on an interpersonal level, even though I'm an introvert. So people see me and they're like, oh, you know, Dave, he'd rather I'd rather have his head in the computer than go to a networking event, which is true. But when I do go to the networking event, being able to connect with people on a natural level is something that I developed over time. So when people look at me, they don't think of that. But that kind of is my hidden talent.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Dave Lorenzo
Oh, my gosh. So I have a mentor. His name is Alan Weiss. He's the king of solo consulting. He's great. And he's always said for as long as I've been working with him 15 years now, he said the true wealth is discretionary time. And when I internalize that when I realized that it wasn't about the money that I made, but about what the money allows me to do and how the money allows me to take back control of my time, that to me is a governing principle that I use for every choice that I make in business. And we talk about it as a family, but that our family makes so discretionary time being true wealth. That piece of advice was huge for me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's an awesome piece of advice. What's one thing that surprises you or that surprises people about you?

Dave Lorenzo
Well, so OK, Tim, outside of Miami, if I go somewhere, particularly if I go somewhere where there's a large Latin community, when people I'm with I look really white when people and they hear me speak Spanish outside of Miami, people are just blown away by it. So I know kind of a thing that a lot of people don't know is growing up in New York and working in the hospitality industry for a number of years.

Dave Lorenzo
I learned to speak Spanish, having to speak Spanish for work purposes and then moving to Miami in 2007. It just kind of became a total immersion. And, you know, we speak Spanish at home, so when people see me outside of Miami speak Spanish, it shocks them.

Tim Fitzpatrick
OK, that's I never would have guessed. So that's awesome. What about success? What does it mean to you?

Dave Lorenzo
So success, you know, the definition of success has multiple ways to define it, but in my personal life, I know I'm successful when I see my kids interact with people who they've never met before. And they're and they're polite and respectful and they ask really good questions in a business setting. I know I'm successful when people come up to me years after we work together and they tell me that this one thing that they got from the time when they were working with me made all the difference to them.

Dave Lorenzo
I know I'm successful in my marriage when my wife and I are still able to make each other laugh each and every day. So there's different definitions of success, depending on what you're talking about. Everything I do, I do from a holistic perspective. So those are just three of them.

Tim Fitzpatrick
It's awesome. Where's your happy place?

Dave Lorenzo
So a couple of places really, really make me happy in terms of recreation, any baseball stadium with my family or with my kids. Pre-pandemic we travel all around and we part of what we do with our vacations every year, we work in a baseball game, at least one into every place we go. So any baseball stadium, that's my happy place. I love to work. I love being in with a group of people that I'm working with, whether it's facilitating a training session or speaking to a group. I'm really happy when I'm connecting with a group of people. I like that group dynamic and then, you know, doing stuff like this, like being here with you. This is my happy place.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Awesome. I love it. What about qualities? What qualities do you value in the people with whom you spend time?

Dave Lorenzo
Well, I really put a great emphasis on honesty and vulnerability. Whenever anybody can share something that makes them vulnerable. They got me, right. So if you're like I interviewed someone on my podcast a few weeks ago and she starts the interview off by telling her origin story. And part of her origin story was that she had an affair that ended her 15-year marriage. And this isn't the first two minutes of our interview. And she had me.

Dave Lorenzo
It was so compelling because I thought, man, if she revealed this in the first two minutes of the interview, imagine what great stuff. Imagine how we're going to connect and how she's going to connect with the audience, because she's you know, she's free of having this baggage that most people carry around with them. So whenever I see someone who's willing to make themselves vulnerable, they're willing to take a risk. They're willing to get outside their comfort zone.

Dave Lorenzo
That person's got me immediately because I know that that person's just going to leave it all. They're going to leave it all out on the field. They're just going to give me everything they got. And if they're if they're willing to do that, they've got my attention. They've earned it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
That's a fantastic story. And you must have been like, damn, really? Wow. OK.

Dave Lorenzo
I was you know, I immediately said to her, your ability to express your vulnerability has captivated me. So I'm going to tell you that I think you probably have a very high level of credibility with our audience right now, because I don't know what you would possibly hold back if you're telling us that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Right. Exactly. Yeah. She was obviously very comfortable in her own skin.

Dave Lorenzo
Or she's comfortable enough with that area of discomfort where, you know, and then I was a little put off because I didn't know. Should I ask about that or should I just go? I do it. I just made a comment and she said, look, I have to be I have I am who I am. And people will either accept me or reject me based on that. And that is a very confident statement to make. So whether she was confident or not, it came off as confidence. One hundred percent.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Wow, that's crazy. Before we start talking about sales, just share a little bit more about what you're doing. Dave, what types of businesses do you work with? How are you helping them?

Dave Lorenzo
Yeah, thanks, Tim. I work with all professional services firms. So lawyers, CPAs, architects, financial advisors, realtors, mortgage brokers, people who want to do what we do. People want to become consultants or you want to learn how to be a coach and you want to learn how to develop a coaching business. Well, there's a dozen different coaching business models. I can help you sort out and figure out which one is right for you.

Dave Lorenzo
So anyone who's in the professional services field and they want to use relationship-based sales and marketing to grow their business, I would love to be somebody who gives you options for business models and advice and guidance. And you learn from me, I was one of the pioneers out in front. And you know what happens to pioneers? They take a lot of arrows so you don't have to.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. So you've plenty of experience and you've taken the wounds so we don't have to. I love it, so let's talk about sales. A lot of us get in business aren't natural sales people, but man, if we don't have marketing and sales, bringing in leads, bringing on new customers, we can have the best product or service in the world. And none of that matters. So what do most people get wrong about sales?

Dave Lorenzo
Yeah, you know, Tim, most people think of sales as something that you do to people and you're inflicting yourself on them. You're doing something to them. But that's not the case. Sales is actually helping people in exchange for financial compensation. So most people are at their core good. And most people want to help other people. So you have to watch all the sales and put yourself in a position to offer someone help.

Dave Lorenzo
And if they say yes, you say, OK, I'm happy to help you, but I do that in exchange for financial compensation. This is what this is worth. Would you like some help? And that's my number one closing line, by the way. I'm yeah. I'm giving it away right now. Would you like some help? That's all you have to say. You want to close more deals. Listen, if you'd like some help, I'd love to help you.

Dave Lorenzo
Would you like some help? And if they say no, they say no. But from a marketing perspective, if you're a professional, this is what you need to do stuff like we're doing today. Any way you can educate people, any way you can help people that will get them interested in you. And once people become interested in you, they will find a way to ask you for help. And when they ask you for help, you just have to say, here's what a fair value for the help that I would provide you will be.

Dave Lorenzo
This is what if you're in business, the business, this is what the return on investment will look like or if it's a business to consumer sales base. Hey, listen, this is the pain that I'm going to take away. Here's how I'm going to help you achieve a goal. Would you like me to help you? That's it. So what people get wrong about sales is they think that sales is exactly what used to be on the old TV shows, people knocking on doors and selling vacuum cleaners or Amway products.

Dave Lorenzo
And, you know, there is a good way to do that and there's a difficult way to do that. And inflicting yourself on people is not what sales is. Sales is offering to help in exchange for financial compensation.

Tim Fitzpatrick
As you're talking about this, I'm thinking of the movie Boiler Room. Did you ever see Boiler Room?

Dave Lorenzo
Yeah. Well, it's one of my favorite movies of all time. Some of the greatest lines about sales.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes. Yeah. But I think that's what people think they think about, like car sales people. You know, it's like I let me go talk to my manager and see if we can get this approved. You know, like, oh my God, this is painful. How do you feel about, you know, the word closing in sales?

Dave Lorenzo
So, look, I'm a relationship-based business development guy. I'm a relationship-based sales guy. So the first time we work together, that's the beginning of something. That's not the end. So the word closing is a word that I have to use because I work in the space where people sell things to other people. But I don't like the connotation of closing as an endpoint because as I said, the first time we work together, that's the beginning of a relationship.

Dave Lorenzo
So I'm not a huge fan of you know, I get why people say closing because that's the end of this part of the process. But it really is the beginning of a longer-term relationship. Even if you sell private jets, there's going to be an opportunity for you to provide other services or sell another jet to this person at some point. So don't think of it as an end. Think of it as a beginning and the word closing for me we have to use it because that's how people understand sales. But I'm not a huge fan. It's not it's not my favorite thing to talk about.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it's kind of it can come across as kind of a very negative thing.

Dave Lorenzo
Well, and people buy. We don't make them do anything, right? So people buy because of their own needs. People buy on their own terms. It's our job to figure out what people are looking for. And if we can help them, then it's our job to articulate what that help would look like and what the future will look like if they work with us. At that point, they make a decision. So the term closing, the second reason why I think it's a pain in the neck is it gives the impression that in some way the person who's selling the services has some control over that.

Dave Lorenzo
But really all we can control is the way we communicate with people and the way we offer help to people. And then it's up to them whether they buy or not. And this is something that a lot of salespeople, it drives them nuts, right. So you don't get a deal and you've tried and you followed up and it's just not meant to be you don't get a deal. The salesperson takes it personally because he or she thinks there's something they could have done.

Dave Lorenzo
Well, we don't know the 50 things that led to that person on the other side's decision not to work with us. Our product, our service, the relationship we developed with them may have been spot on. It's just the timing wasn't right because they didn't have the bandwidth to handle what we were trying to accomplish. They may come back to you in six months and be ready to do that deal. So all you can do is put yourself in a position to help somebody. If they choose to go with you, then that's fine. If they choose not to go with you, that doesn't mean a hard no. It just means not now. Maybe some point in the future.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I really like that. How do you feel about permission-based selling?

Dave Lorenzo
Well, all selling is permission-based, right, so we're not I'm not Santa Claus coming down the chimney and going, hey, I'm here to see what I got in my bag. They got to let me in. I can't go through the window. So, you know, listen, I feel like all sales marketing these days is permission-based because you and I are not we're not doing commercials on TV and interrupting people, right.

Dave Lorenzo
I mean, maybe we can run some Facebook ads, but people still have to click on them in order to get the benefit of the ads. So I think that the days of interrupting people and making a living doing that, I feel like that portion of sales has shrunk to a very small defined area. I think now more and more businesses are starting to use education-based marketing, providing value upfront, offering to develop our relationship first, and then looking at ways they can help people in exchange for compensation.

Dave Lorenzo
So if permission-based marketing is people raising their hands and saying, hey, I want to hear more from you, I think that's the only way to go these days. I can't think of any product or service where interrupting people is going to be more effective than having people welcome you in.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, yeah, I like that. Well, we can't have a conversation about sales without jumping into cold calling. So why do you feel like cold calling is a bad option for most intelligent sales professionals?

Dave Lorenzo
Well, if you know what you're doing, then there's a way to reach out to people and be helpful and provide value without having to kick in the door and say, hey, I'm here, and this is what I got for you today. Right. I work with a company called Heartland Payment Systems. They do credit card processing and they also have payroll processing. And they have a gift card program mostly for retail merchants.

Dave Lorenzo
One portion of their business is hardcore, knocking on doors, going into pizza shops and delis and independent retail establishments and walking in asking to speak with the manager and saying, if you give me your credit card statement, I can save you a lot of money on your credit card processing. And they have maybe a two to three percent success rate at getting appointments from literally walking into establishments and asking to see the manager.

Dave Lorenzo
On the other side of their business, they have a segment of their sales team that's just designed to work with associations and financial institutions and what we do with financial institutions, that's the area where I work with them, is they reach out to banks and they partner with banks doing education programs to help the customers. The business customers of banks understand how they can save money not only with credit card processing but with payment processing and how they can organize their finances in a way so that it's easy to be compliant and it's easy to do their taxes.

Dave Lorenzo
And this education-based approach is five times more effective than the cold calling approach. So when I go to the people who are in leadership at the company and I say to them, listen, your salespeople are one hundred percent commission, why don't we teach them all to do what we're doing in the financial services sector, to do what we do with groups and associations? The answer I get is it would be too hard and too costly to train them.

Dave Lorenzo
So cold calling, basically cold calling is a way for them to just hire people and say, all right, here's a script, memorize this and run headfirst into a wall over and over again. Cold calling is the last refuge for the lazy and the unintelligent. That's the way I look at it. If you're smart, whatever role you're in from a sales perspective, you can do it using value delivery, using an empathetic relationship-based approach. And you'll be at least twice as effective as you'd be if you were knocking on doors and going, hey, you got any problems I can solve?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So in that so in that example, if I'm hearing you correctly, rather than having them go out and knock on doors, you'd rather see them getting involved in the local chamber and doing workshops for chamber members, things like that.

Dave Lorenzo
Yeah, or pull out your phone. The next time you're training someone on how to read a credit card statement, pull out your phone, put it on a little tripod and film you and your customer, film you training the people or do a Loom video, screen video of you going through a credit card statement teaching people how to read it, send that to everybody you know, and then when you get questions back, make appointments with those people who ask you questions and do a one on one review of their statement, that is their sales call, their sales call is reviewing people statements and going, see this type of card.

Dave Lorenzo
I could have saved you here. This type of card, I could have saved you here. All you gotta do is educate people on how to read those statements. And people are going to call with questions. When they call with questions. You make an appointment to go over, read their statement, and then who's not going to go? Well, if you think you can save me that much money and it doesn't cost me anything to sign up, where do I sign?

Dave Lorenzo
All of a sudden you've built up trust. You've built up a lot of good will. And one of three things happens when you get into that scenario. You either get the business or you get a referral or you connect with someone who you can recruit into your company and the salespeople get paid on all three of those things. So if they say, listen, I'm not interested in switching credit card companies, credit card processing companies right now, we're payroll companies right now.

Dave Lorenzo
No problem. I understand it could be a little intimidating. Who do you think I should talk to? Is there anybody, you know, that I could talk to who might be interested? They may give you a name and they may make an introduction for you if they can't think of anybody. Do you know anyone who's an outgoing people person? Because I'm looking to recruit other people to help me and my sales team. If you know somebody who's looking for a job and they're a good people person, they don't have to have any experience in sales.

Dave Lorenzo
Let me know and I'd love to talk to them. You're going to come away with a name either for another salesperson that you can talk to about coming on board or you might get a referral or you might get the business or you could even get all three. So that interaction, because it starts from a place of trust, is always going to be powerful. It's always going to be valuable.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Awesome stuff. So if we don't need to cold calls. Cold calls is not a good option, especially on the professional services side. How do you recommend that we sell professional services? And when we're talking about professional services, coaches, consultants, attorneys, CPAs, architects, insurance brokers, all those types of folks, how do we sell?

Dave Lorenzo
So the first thing I recommend you do is call your clients if you have current clients and say to your clients, give me the three most valuable things that we worked on together. Right. And then your clients are always going to provide you with your best marketing material. Don't try and figure out what the market wants. Ask the market what it wants. Right. What are the three most valuable things you've discovered through our work together?

Dave Lorenzo
They're going to tell you. And if you can build education programs, even a 10-minute video like we're doing a video here now, you can do a YouTube video on your own, a 10-minute video educating people on the things your clients tell you are the most valuable things you've taught them. That's the best place to start. Then if you can put together a 30-minute presentation, I would go out and figure out what groups or associations your ideal clients belong to.

Dave Lorenzo
And I would offer to do that 30-minute talk to those groups or associations. Now, if we're still in a place where it's a little hard to get together in person, you can do webinars or you can do videos and send out the videos. The number one source for leads for my clients who are really good at doing video is videos done on YouTube. You put the videos on YouTube and you share them on your social media sites.

Dave Lorenzo
You share them with people who are interested in your services. You put them on your website and you educate people. There's a big misconception, Tim, that if we tell people what we know, they're going to go do it themselves, right? Well, I'm not going to go try and get a court record expunged for one of my relatives. I'm not going to try and remove somebody's appendix. I tried during the pandemic to follow YouTube videos to fix my own dishwasher, garbage disposal.

Dave Lorenzo
And you know what ended up happening? The garbage disposal pieces sat on the dining room table for like a month. And so my wife was finally like, look, we're going to have a plumber come in and we'll just wait outside. So you can teach people everything that you know. And that's going to make them want to work with you even more because they're going to feel like if this person is giving me this great information for free, imagine what they're going to help me with when I pay them.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, there's a couple of things that I want to pull out of this that you just said that I think are really important for people not to miss. One is don't try to figure out what the market wants. Ask the market what it wants. I have made that mistake plenty of times, so please don't make that mistake. The other thing, too, is just this focus on educating. You know, when we educate and we teach, we teach people, we're serving them.

Tim Fitzpatrick
We're also especially if you're in professional services, you are building authority and you are building credibility and trust. And that is what people need if they're going to raise their hand and say, hey, I want to work with you. So awesome stuff, Dave. Anything else that we should be thinking about when we're selling professional services other than just educating, serving people? Anything else come to mind?

Dave Lorenzo
Well, your level of comfort is critical to your success in being able to connect with people and work with people in the professional services industry. If you haven't sold anything in a week or a month and you're desperate, people will smell that on you. So take stock of who you are when you're at your best, read your testimonials and think about your biggest success in business. And remember, you're that person. You choose who you get to be.

Dave Lorenzo
The other day, I'm walking up the steps and I fell walking up the steps. Right. I've been walking up steps for fifty-one years. Right. I'm 53 years old. I've been climbing steps for at least fifty-one years and I still haven't mastered it. So I could choose to be the klutz who falls going up the steps. Or I can choose to be the guy who carried a twenty-million-dollar book of consulting work when I was a high-tech consultant and built a seven-figure business on my own lifestyle business.

Dave Lorenzo
So I choose to be that second person. Now, I'm still going to make mistakes. I'm still going to win some, I'm going to lose some. I'm still going to make a fool of myself from time to time. But in my mind, I'm the person who's successful. The most important thing I can impart on people is choose to be the person who is at the pinnacle of his or her career, regardless of whether it's been a couple of weeks since you've sold something, and when you reflect on that, it comes through in your attitude and it makes you the kind of person people want to work with.

Dave Lorenzo
If you really need to have a deal and you feel like you got to close this guy because you've got to pay the electric bill at the end of the month, you're never going to get that deal. Nobody is going to want to work with you cause they're going to smell it. So the level of confidence that you have is a big, big deal. And if you're not overly confident, at least be comfortable. Never let that desperation come off of you, because once it does, you just poison the whole process.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, this has been awesome. Dave, you've shared some really good stuff and I think really communicated to people that, look, sales doesn't have to be difficult or hard. We shouldn't feel like we have to be that stereotypical salesperson that most of us don't like. We don't have to do that to be successful. And so I really appreciate you sharing that. Are there any other last-minute words of wisdom or thoughts you want to leave us with?

Dave Lorenzo
Just think about ways that you can connect with people on a person-to-person level, even in B2B sales. It's always person to person build that relationship first and the money will follow.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Fantastic. People need help with their sales, their marketing, where's the best place to reach out to you, Dave?

Dave Lorenzo
My website is just like my name, davelorenzo.com, right at the top of the website. If you want a free guide to building a sales system, building a full marketing plan. davelorenzo.com, my revenue roadmap is right there at the top. If they click on it, they can have it for free. I give away all my secrets in that twenty-seven-page document for free. Go to davelorenzo.com right at the top of the page. Click on it and get your free guide.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Fantastic. Dave, thank you so much for taking the time and imparting your wisdom on us. I learned something I know other people will as well. For those that are watching, listening. Thank you for tuning in. I'm Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing. If you want to gain clarity on where to focus your marketing right now, hop on over to our website rialtomarketing.com. That's R-I-A-L-T-O marketing.com. Click on the get a free consult button. Guarantee you'll walk away having some clarity on where you need to focus right now. Thanks so much. Till next time, take care.


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About the Author Tim Fitzpatrick

Tim Fitzpatrick is the President of Rialto Marketing. At Rialto Marketing, we help service businesses simplify marketing so they can grow with less stress. We do this by creating and implementing a plan to communicate the right message to the right people. Marketing shouldn't be difficult. All you need is the RIGHT plan.

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