Word Of Mouth Isn’t Enough To Drive Growth

Word Of Mouth Isn’t Enough To Drive Growth

Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing Podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview, where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks to accelerate growth and marketing shouldn't be difficult. I am super excited to have with me today Wayne Hunter from AvTek Solutions. Wayne, thanks for taking the time. I appreciate you being here with me.

Wayne Hunter
Hey, I'm glad you asked me to be here. Our last conversation I really enjoyed. So I'm looking forward to this.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yes, likewise. So before we dig into the heart of the matter and you kind of share some of the things that you've learned through your journey, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions. If you're ready to jump in with both feet.

Wayne Hunter
Go for it, man.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, so very quickly, what do you do and how long have you been doing it?

Wayne Hunter
I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I run this business. I've been running for 19 years. I had a business before this, ran it for seven years and sold it. But I'm a solutions guy. I like solving problems for customers and doing the things that they don't want to do, help them be successful. We have a mantra around here that we say, AvTek's success is directly proportional to our client's success.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Love it. So true. Right? The more successful they are, the more they're going to need, the more they're going to want your support, so yeah, totally agree. So in those 19 years and frankly, even before that, you had already built and sold a business, what's the most important lesson you've learned in running a business?

Wayne Hunter
For me, it's a couple of different things, but I guess the one thing I would say that I've learned the most is not expecting others to do it like me, because they're not me. Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing I've learned.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Have you found that when you put yourself in that mindset, it becomes much easier to delegate?

Wayne Hunter
Yes, because one of the things is, for me, I'm kind of unique. A lot of people told me what I was doing, not everybody could do, and for a long time I didn't believe them because I'm just a poor boy from backwoods Louisiana. Okay? If I can do it, anybody can do it. Right?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Right.

Wayne Hunter
But like my wife says, I'm a perfectionist. But at the same time, I got this knack where I could sit with clients and CX levels and have technical people sit in the same room and shake their head all at the same time, and they all understood the same thing at the same time. I thought everybody could do that. I found out over the years that's not. So so I had to really think about what if I'm hiring a technical person, if I hiring a client services manager, or if I'm hiring a salesperson, I can't expect them to do what I do. So I really got to understand what's their strengths and position them to be successful. So what that means is using the two ears right here, listen twice as much as I talk.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Wayne Hunter
Pay attention, figure out that strength and set it them in motion to be successful. Because if they're successful, I'm successful. And it took me a long time. It's one of these things. I didn't grasp it in my early years, of course. I was so fast at trying to build a business. It was one of those things I got my own way and sometimes you just got to get out of your own way.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I don't usually do this, but I want to pull something out that you said because I think it's super important. It really resonates with me. You talked about these things that you're good at. You didn't realize that other people don't excel at those things. Right. And it's so easy for us to overlook the things that we're great at and just assume that other people are equally as good at those things. And oftentimes as entrepreneurs, we've got these skills and we undervalue them because we think everybody else can do them. And that's not the case. Right. The things that are in our zone of genius are not other people's zone of genius. And there's a ton of value in that. And we need to make sure that we're valuing it appropriately.

Wayne Hunter
I agree. Plus the add to that is those that recognize what their talents are and understand that everybody can't do it. And then try to figure out how do you implement what you're good at into others. And it may be two people or three people, but turn it into a positive and a teaching piece. Those are the people that succeed. Because if you can't get out of your own way and you're only one person and there's only 24 hours in a day, you can't do it all. So you've got to understand how to take that and put that pieces in the right place and let them thrive and build. Because what I found out on the backside was I could go do more and I could go do more of what I really enjoyed the business development, the education. I've got the right books. I'm a speaker. I get to go speak and talk about what we do. I get to do those things now instead of sitting there twisting a knob all the time. And because of that, business grows. It's funny how that works. You got to let go, get out of your own way sometimes .

Tim Fitzpatrick
You touched on a mantra that you guys have within the business, Wayne, of that your success is directly proportional to your clients do you have any other kind of mantras or motivational sayings that you use to help you push through those times where things get challenging?

Wayne Hunter
Well a lot of times when all of a sudden business and you'll have that client that just rubs you the wrong way and you may rub them the wrong way, you know what I'm saying? You can have that. One of the things I try to tell everybody that works for me is look, when you're frustrated, put yourself in their shoes. Then think about what you're frustrated about. Because nine times out of ten you're going to find out you may be the reason why you're frustrated. Not them. You got to open your mind up. Don't work within a box but always put yourself in our clients shoes and what do you expect? We always go in there saying I think about it and I catch myself. Sometimes I'll get a phone call from an SDR, a sales development rep, right? They're banging the phones, giving you a call, trying to, trying to get a meeting with you. I got SDRs doing the same thing. And when I get there, in back of your mind you're going, why you call me? I got busy and all this and then I turn around and go, you know what, you got a really hard job. To me that's one of the people who's got the really hardest job is calling somebody like me to try and get five minutes of my day, which I don't have five minutes. But you got to do that. So you always got to put yourself in that other person. Because what I find if you do that you learn. So in our business it's all about learning. Always be striving to learn and be better.

Marketing Consistently

Tim Fitzpatrick
One of the things that you shared with me in the pre interview, Wayne was that about two years ago you started marketing consistently. I'd love for you to just kind of take us back to that time and why you decided to make that shift, what you're doing with marketing and just what's happened with your business since.

Wayne Hunter
It's funny, it really ties to this whole premise you have revenue accelerator. It really does. Yeah. I'm just like everybody else. I had relationships, clients had followed me for years. Referrals. And so it's word of mouth, referral business. We grow a business that way. And the interesting part about it is when you start a business, getting past that first million is that first kind of like beating your head against the wall am I going to get past it? I get past it. And then it's the 2 million mark and you get past that. Well getting to that 5 million, that's tough. And depending on how spread how big your business is with this. But typically if you're a small business, I mean we're only twelve people. Okay?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Wayne Hunter
Getting that 5 million, word of mouth and all that, it wasn't enough because you could only do so much. There's all this and you make any phone calls. So I made a conscious decision is I've got to change what I'm doing. And my job, if I want, as a visionary of the companies, my job is to get other people to know about my people. Not me, but my people. And so it can bring that in. How are you going to do that? Well, that's old school marketing. I tried marketing several times, spent a lot of money. It was like, didn't work, didn't work, didn't work. You know what I learned? It wasn't because it didn't work. I wasn't consistent long enough. Marketing is when you invest in it, it's going to take a minimum of six months to even remotely resemble any type of payout. But after that six months and you stay consistent, that's going to do it. So I knew if I want to grow my business, I had to change what I was doing. And so I'd been chased by this group that wanted me to come and do this. And I said, you know what? I'm going to commit. 100% commit, go do it, no matter what. And I'm going to commit to it, to it for a year. End of story. Set up money aside and went and it followed. In six months into it, I started seeing pieces happen. And by that end, that year, not only did I have all the money I spent, but X factors above it. Yeah, I found business. The funny part is, when you do that marketing, I found over $800,000 of business in my existing customers I did not know about. And I talked to them all the time, but I didn't talk to them. Right?

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah.

Wayne Hunter
And the marketing helped me understand how to uncover opportunity that I wasn't seeing. So the old dog new tricks you can teach them if they're willing to learn.

Tim Fitzpatrick
There is so much value in what you just shared there. And I always love to hear this from people other than marketers, because it means a whole lot more when it comes from somebody like you.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I'm not a marketer.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But I talk about this all the time. Marketing is about consistency over time. We have to be patient and we have to think long term. But the challenge is, so many of us as humans, we're wired to think short term, but you think short term. With marketing, it's never going to work. So you initially made the shift to invest in marketing because you had just reached that ceiling where you're like, word of mouth is not going to help us get to where we want to go, which is a common trigger for people to look at investing in marketing, you started doing it consistently. You had realistic expectations at six months. It doesn't mean that you were getting a huge return on investment, but you were starting to see the breadcrumbs letting you know, hey, we're starting to get some traction here. This is headed in the right direction. What types of marketing tactics are you using within your business? Because I know you've got a sales team. What are you doing from a marketing standpoint to help their efforts?

Wayne Hunter
We started off, and we still do, we do it every week. We're old school mailing. We got little gimmicks that we do, but we send these mailers out with have a document in there, put in there. One of them is called the Aspirin Campaign. Is your current It provider giving you a headache? Here's two bear aspirin on AvTek, and we put them in there. What I found, everybody's email is just crazy, right? Doing all this. So you got to think outside of the box a little bit about how are you going to get past that gatekeeper? So we send something, we always put something in it because the gatekeeper feels something in it. They're going, oh, they're not going to throw that away because I might be throwing something away that the owner wants or the CEO wants or the CFO wants. So that's one thing. And also we make sure our stuff stands out in a stack. We may send out a lime green envelope or a bright yellow or bright orange, make it stand out and where it comes in there. So it's more about that and being consistent. And when I say consistent I just had a client call me last week. I just hired my chief security officer. He was here with me in my office, and I was getting him online, and I got a phone call, and I wasn't expecting it, but it was from an owner of an underwriting company calling me about doing a compliance assessment. And he was holding the actual Aspirin letter I sent him three years ago. And I sent him another sitting duck one last year. I sent him another one this year, closer look one. So he's been getting these mailers from us, but the one he referenced was the one I sent him three years ago. So just because you sent it doesn't mean they haven't looked if you didn't answer the phone when you called them. Because we send the mailer out on a Wednesday and then my SDR calls on them three times the following week, monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Three touches on every contact we send out. So we spend, per SDR, middle of 100 mailers every week we send out.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So for your SDR, so you're sending 100 mailers out each week for them. That gives them their work for the following week.

Wayne Hunter
Exactly. They call out on, they follow in, and their job is to get an appointment. That's their sole job, to get appointment on my calendar.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So you're doing that to help multipronged approach, right. It's not just direct mail. I love the fact that you touch on look, just because people aren't responding doesn't mean they're not taking notice. It's just exactly the pain is not there at that point. But when the pain was there, he kept her mailing because it just because it was unique stuck with them, right?

Wayne Hunter
That's right.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But why are they going to respond when they don't have the pain or the challenge at that point? It doesn't mean now, had you not continued to follow up? Yeah, who knows, maybe not. You stayed in front until the pain became so great that they were ready to take action.

Wayne Hunter
Exactly.

Speaking For Leads

Tim Fitzpatrick
You also touched on speaking. You're doing a lot of speaking to generate leads as well.

Wayne Hunter
Yeah, one of the things I started doing is what we call celebrity marketing and that's getting yourself out there. Now, some people don't like to get on stage and speak. There's other things you can do besides speaking. Like I've written two books, I'm working on a third book and actually talking with a ghostwriter right now, potentially doing a biography as a fourth book. But it's one of the things getting yourself out there, getting the story out about who you are, what you do finally it can be simple things, is get you a little presentation put together just don't talk about your company. It could be about something you're passionate about from an industry's perspective. Like I'm passionate about cybersecurity and compliance. Right. So I just put something down and I call go to your mind just went blank. Local councils getting with them, industries that you know of, that are folks that you work with you got clients that have certain type of they put on like, I got a CPA client, they put on CPE courses and they have other come in well, they have me come speak to that I don't charge it for them. Get out there in front of them and start seeing it. I spoke at a banking conference where I present there's opportunities. You just look for it and start putting it out there and going and then all of a sudden I had a banking association from Alabama, which I don't know anybody there. Never done anything there. But they called me to ask me to be a guest speaker there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
How often do you speak?

Wayne Hunter
I probably have at a minimum I do probably four a year, at a minimum. And then there's other goes on. But I also got my own webinar series I put on every month. I do podcast on this, various different ones and so it's just one getting yourself out there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, getting the word out.

Wayne Hunter
It's not selling, it's do it from an educational standpoint. That's a critical point there. If you're always out there pitching sales, you're selling in your pitch that turns everybody off. Best way to get sales is have a presentation that just teaches them and all of a sudden that sets you as the trusted resource, you're the trusted advisor. They'll come to you and the sales happen. That's the thing I learned from doing this.

Tim Fitzpatrick
With your speaking. Do you have any kind of ask at the end where you're giving them free resources to get on your mailing list? Do you have any kind of call to action at the end?

Wayne Hunter
Typically what I do, because there's some of these, especially if you're doing like a CPE type of thing, you can't have a sales pitch, but at the end of it, I always say any of the materials I have, I share. How you can go to my website, go right here in my resource page. You can download all these resources and that's the hook.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it.

Wayne Hunter
So you got to be conscious of where you're presenting, what they want you present. What is that community look like if it's a pitch or not a pitch. Now some you go in and at the end you got that hook and you do that pitch. But also there's others where it's educational, only you still make it. But it's putting them to your resource page for that educational content. Now they go to your page, they look at everything else you're doing, and that draws them in. So you got to make sure you have those places to go tie them to.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So does your resources page have an opt in?

Wayne Hunter
Oh, yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay, cool.

Wayne Hunter
Absolutely.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that because look, of course you're speaking to add value, but one of the things that I always recommend people do is you got to have some way to continue to build that relationship if at all possible. And I love that because most people want the resources from the presentation. That's a simple, easy hook. They're going to your website, they give you their name, email. They get the resources. Now you're nurturing them through email, they may then be getting invites to your webinar series. The other one that I've seen work really well when you can't and saying pitch, I don't know. I always hate to say that, but when you can't have a really super salesy call to action is for an event having a follow up webinar, like two days after the event, something like that. Where it's hey, if you like this. I'm doing a special event two days from now on, x that's going to dig deeper into what we talked about today. Go here to sign up, right? And then people go there to sign up, then they're out of somebody else's platform on yours and you have a little bit more latitude.

Wayne Hunter
That's very true. And you can do those things if you do it in the right. I just got through doing one for a CPA society, and it was their annual conference, and I'm presenting on, Is Your Business Prepared? And really he's talking about preparing for compliance and the different rules and just giving it. And I gave him that content, but at the end there was questions and people started asking, hey, I'm spending this on this and I'm doing this, or I can't get this. Can you do that for me? And since it come in that form of a question, I was able to answer now, yes, I can do this. Well, how much would it cost? It would cost you this. Well, how do we get that? And it goes in there. So that's the result of taking that approach of when you're educating and you've been put up there by the people putting on the event as the authority, that's the reason why you're there. So you already got that endorsement, right? As soon as you do the education I found if I do an education with no pitch, just given the resources, I get more that way than if I do the pitch. So I've taken pitches or call to action pitches out of my presentations for that purpose, and that's worked extremely well.

Tim Fitzpatrick
But it's one of those things where it's a low key call to action. Hey, if you want the resources, go here.

Wayne Hunter
Exactly.

Tim Fitzpatrick
And I've actually even done it with people where I'm like, hey, if you want the resources, go here. Hey, by the way, when you get the resources, you're going to go on our email list. If all you want are the resources, you can just unsubscribe. But if you stay on the list, here's what's going to happen, right? And just set the expectation. I think people appreciate that, but speaking in professional services works, and it works really well. It is a longer term play, I think, but frankly, depending on where you're speaking and how many people you're speaking to, you can get immediate business from it. So I love the fact that you're doing it, and it's something that I certainly encourage people to do, but there's a lot of people that have some fear around that. And if you can get over the fear and just start doing it, so many benefits to be gained.

Wayne Hunter
I had someone teach me something because I'd never gone to any kind of speaker training or anything like that. And until here, about six months ago, I got offered to go to one for free. So I went and this guy, he was something else, and I asked him the question. I said, you know, when I go to get up on stage, all of a sudden I get that apprehension, I get that knot in my throat, my mouth gets dry, and that until I get someone to communicate with me. It's hard to breathe. Whatever he says, that's good. That's good? What do you mean, that's good? He goes, that's your body telling you it's game time, right? Because it matters to you. If you get up on the stage and that don't happen, that means you don't believe in what you're up there for. And when he told me that totally changed the game. Now when I get up there. Yeah, I have that apprehension, but nothing like I used to before because now I know, oh, I'm ready, let's go do it. So part of that, if you've never been to a speaker, to someone that coaches that stuff, I'd highly encourage that because there's a lot of people that don't get on stage and speak because they got that stage fright. But that's actually not stage fright. That's your body telling you, game on, get ready, let's go.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, it means you're paying attention, right?

Wayne Hunter
Exactly.

Sales Consistency as a Challlenge

Tim Fitzpatrick
Wayne, one of the things, the other things you shared with me in our pre interview was your sales development reps and consistency. There has been a challenge. Can you describe what that challenge a little bit more and some of the things that you've done to try to fix it?

Wayne Hunter
Well, what I was doing. Of course, the culture today is a little different than it's been, but I was really going after interns and looking at intern while I was getting kids out of college doing this and when you're doing that and you're coming into it and the training you need to do and what you're coming into it. SDR is a tough job. Don't let nobody fool you because you're banging the phones. Think about it. Put yourself there. Think about someone's calling you, you're answering the phone and how you react to those folks that's the people I'm talking about that's working for you, calling on your behalf out there. So looking at that, I started to have to change my perspective a little bit about, okay, you got to find the people with the mentality that they're not afraid of that. Two, you can't just put someone into SDR role with no path. Okay. So what we do is obviously we got some certain personality trait tools we use and quizzing we do to find the people that's in the right are they an introvert you don't want them doing to be an SDR role, they need to be more of an extrovert. They got to be able to gauge are they patient, are they courteous? Do they have a competitive nature? Hopefully they do. You want them to be competitive because it's about getting that win. Yeah, if they're not competitive, then getting the win or not doesn't really do anything for them. So you got to first look at what's the makeup of that person and what's the right traits in a person. And it's not trying to be negative or positive on anybody, but you don't want to put somebody don't have the right traits for it in that job because they're not going to be successful and all you're doing is hurting them. That's wrong. You want to put somebody there and make them successful. So first make sure they got the chops for it for doing that. Then it's the education, the time, the communication, because even though they do it and you give them a script, they're still representing you. So I understand. I talk to my SDRs every day in the morning, going in, hey, what is it oncology help you? We got them recorded, we look at it. How do we help and get in there, be involved with it. And that makes a big difference in doing that. So looking at folks that's trying to make and I look at it from a marketing and sales standpoint, you'd be surprised how many people with a marketing background want to do sales. And then there's another type of marketing wants to do the market. But both of them work very closely together. So getting that trade and that background communications is the other background I use. And surprisingly, psychology, someone in a psychology degree is very good in that. So it's really breaking down is what's the trait and the people to get there. And once I learned that and doing it, that's what changed. You just can't take anybody says, oh, I'm doing this, and put them there.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So identifying the best traits that SDRs need to have has helped you find and select the right people. But then once you found and selected those people, giving them a path, a clear path to be successful, has helped you keep them and help them be successful.

Wayne Hunter
like I've taken this one right now. It brought her in and she's marketing background degree. She was doing just her first little job was data entry. So she hadn't really been doing SDR calls, but she had the traits that I was looking for. So then putting her into that and then putting her through a mentoring program on how to do it, how to make the calls, how to evaluate, have them set goals. Now, when we sat down and kind of says, look in this marketing area here's your routes that you have for growth. You can grow into a marketing from SDR, you can grow into a marketing coordinator and then all the way up to a marketing manager. Or you can go into sales, whether it's inside sales or outside sales, or you can go into what's called a client success Manager where you're managing accounts. So they got three paths with us. They got three paths. And what I've learned out of there, typically someone with that background is going to grow into one of those three paths. So now they know, hey, I got a path I got to go. Now they focus on what they do best, and when they're focused on that, then you can see, are they best there? And then we set metrics. Once you hit these metrics, then we'll see what the next step is. And part of their job is in making that transition is also helping find out who replaces them. So they got responsibility and feeding back to that. What I found is if you get people involved in not only path for them to help themselves, but part of helping themselves. Is helping someone else, then it breeds a culture. Now, I'm big about that, is we all help. We play hard together, we work hard together. Every six months, I bring my whole company and their immediate families together in one location. And we have two work days and then two family days every six months. And we breed that culture. And for me, that's what works for me. Now, it might not work for somebody else, but find your culture, find your niche and breed that. Set a ground that they can learn, and it breeds it. It takes over itself, and you don't have to do it all the time. And that's what changed it for me.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Are your SDRs, are they setting appointments for you? Do you have somebody else that's doing sales appointments? What does that look like?

Wayne Hunter
SDRs are the ones that sets the appointments on net new calls, any net new logos? Their job is net new. Now, I have a customer success manager that manages existing accounts, and I support her or my CSO, or my service manager supports the CSM if they need higher level architecture discussions, whatever coming into that. But that's our two forms. And then once we close a deal, a new account, then that new account, once it's onboarded, rolls over to a CSM and they maintain that account and grow that account so that's where it feeds into. So SDR may be working on a campaign for net new account with that would go to me or another sales rep. Or they may be working on a campaign that's going what's called a crosssell or upsell campaign on existing account. So now they're booking it on the CSM's calendar.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So they're working.

Wayne Hunter
We got whole workflow orchestration and everything for that.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. So your SDRs are working new business and existing clients for new business?

Wayne Hunter
Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Got it. I love that. It's interesting, as you were talking about the right personality, right. And finding the right people. I'm thinking, like, gosh, all these thinking I don't know if this is outside the box or not, but some of these people that are knocking door to door, selling, like paint painting, house painting, pest control. Right. Man, I would think some of those people would be fantastic SDRs, because they're just.

Wayne Hunter
Yes, they can. Because they got that people I'm sorry, you knock somebody's door and you get a door shut in your face and that you can go in the next door.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Right.

Wayne Hunter
I want that person because they can handle that rejection. Or also, what they could be good at is overcoming objections. Yeah, right. And having that, but providing that script to go and do it. But yes, those people, I bet their traits would fit very close to what I look for.

Conclusion

Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Fascinating. This has been a great conversation, Wayne. I really appreciate it. What are your aspirations for the future? What's next?

Wayne Hunter
Well, it's just growing the company like I said, I had my first company and I sold it and then I tried to many retire and that's back in my fortys and my wife come to me one day and says I don't care what you do. I don't care if you become a guide at the lake where we have our place of the lake. I don't care whatever you're going to do, but you got to get out from under my house. You got to get out my feet, out of my house, under my feet and go find something to do. You're driving me crazy. So that's reason I started this business 19 years ago and I'll continue to do this. I love it too much. It's fun to me because I get to learn every day. That's reason I like this business. Not only the It business but being an entrepreneur and being able to make people successful. So my goal is to continue to grow this business, educate others. And at some point when I just don't want to be that active, my goal is to have it where it rolls to my employees. It becomes an employee owned business.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. So knowing what you know now, is there anything you do differently?

Wayne Hunter
Yeah, I would have started marketing 19 years ago. I joke about that. But literally if I could have took and understood what I was doing wrong in marketing all the years back when I was spending money and the amount of money I spent and wasted just because I didn't stay consistent with it would have changed. I'd be way further ahead than where I am now. And I guess that's the biggest thing is if nothing else anybody takes away from this, when you hear marketing, you better think consistency over time. That's the only way it works. Yeah, it costs money but you get it back if you're consistent and always evaluating the focus, your target of that marketing. Just marketing alone doesn't do it. But you got to have a really defined target and how you go about that target then stay consistent to it.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Just so people know. Did I pay you to say that?

Wayne Hunter
No.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay.

Wayne Hunter
But I'll take money.

Tim Fitzpatrick
I just want to make it clear I did not pay Wayne to say that. But thank you for sharing that.

Wayne Hunter
Yeah, no problem.

Tim Fitzpatrick
So, wayne, I really appreciate it. I have enjoyed chatting with you. I know people are going to get a ton of value from what we talked about today. Those of you that are watching and listening, I appreciate you as well. Wayne, where can people learn more about you?

Wayne Hunter
The easiest thing is just go to our website, avteksolutions.com and from there you can find it. You can see what we're doing, you can get my books, what our company is about. And if there's any way I can help you, just reach out.

Tim Fitzpatrick
Cool. I love it. So we'll make sure that is in the show notes, but it's Avteksolutions.com, so go check it out. I have enjoyed connecting with Wayne twice now, so thank you. We've been talking all about what Wayne has been doing to grow his company. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, you can do that over at revenueroadblockscorecard.com. You can also always connect with us over at our website at rialtomarketing.com Be happy to chat with you. So thank you. Till next time. Take care.